Canning - was Re: Baggage cars in freight trains
Doug/all,
Yes, there were can plants distributed all over the U.S. They took in steel (or other) and put out cans and the lids to go on them. There was one in Seattle (Continental Can) and another in Oakland (Con again), etc. The canneries received cans stacked but loose in large cardboard boxes (no separators) ... of about a 1000 (IIRC) cans per box. The box was put into a machine that emptied them into rectangular metal "tubes" formed out of rods that directed the cans - by gravity flow - down to the canning machines. The cans to Alaska were shipped on Liberty Ship sized freighters that delivered them to the canneries. Crane operator on ship lifted pallets and put them on the dock where the fork lifts (he kept more than one busy) ran them into the warehouse and stacked them 3 or 4 high. The rest of the process was pretty much the same as in the PNW - except the cannery in Hawk Inlet was powered by steam driven leather belts running overhead that powered everything - even all the machine tools in the shop used to fix broken machines. This is how it worked in the 60's when I worked in a salmon cannery in the PNW. I worked in the can loft driving a fork lift and on the canning line and in the warehouse (different fork lift unloading boxes of cans from box cars and loading canned fish into the same cars to go out. Yes, the lids came separately packaged and were loaded into the canning machine on the canning floor where the fish was cut and stuffed into the cans, a line of workers (all women usually) "trimmed" the cans (added a small piece of fish to any can that didn't meet weight). The can then had the lid put on it and went thru the "retort" (think huge pressure cooker) in metal carts pushed on flanged wheels. After cooking they went to the labelling line and were put into cardboard boxes which were stacked on pallets (at first it was metal straps but while I worked there we converted to using super tape (3M nylon fibre tape). The pallets went into box cars and were stacked two pallets of salmon high - all by a forklift. Not all salmon produced today went out on the next train. There were pallets stacked in the warehouse that were held until a later time (better prices?). The fish was sorted by species and then put thru "the iron chink" which did the major gutting and cut head and tails off. A worker (yes, I did this job also) stood at the output of the chink and cleaned up the last of each fish (using a knife and water) and from there it went to a holding bin that fed the canning line. The canning machine cut the fish to size and rammed it into the cans - very noisey bang, bang, bang (one bang for every can). When I was in college I worked in the mail department of the S.F. Mint and we used a Pitney-Bowes machine that stuffed bonds into envelopes in a very similar manner. - Nostalgic Jim in the PNW |
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Bill Parks
Here is a 1939 photo of unloading cans that were shipped loose -
https://picryl.com/media/unloading-cans-from-a-boxcar-is-done-by-picking-them-up-on-a-row-of-spikes -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida |
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Dave Nelson
American can was another big mfgr of cans.
FWIW the sheet steel used to make cans was HUGE source of profit for steel mills, far more than anything else. As an example, there was a US Steel mill in Pittsburg CA that received sheet steel from Utah (DRGW/WP) to treat the metal for use in making cans. AFAIK it was pretty much all the plant did.
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Doug/all, |
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Todd Sullivan
There was a big Continental Can Co. plant on Water Street in Syracuse, NY that served canning operations along the Ontario Lake shore for apple products (e.g., applesauce), sauerkraut and cherries, and probably other kinds of fruits and vegetables.
(When the NY Central ran through the city streets of Syracuse, their main access line ran on Water Street. One block north was the Erie Canal.) Todd Sullivan |
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On Nov 17, 2022, at 07:39, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Libbys had one in East Sacramento served (if my a-jed memory hasn't melted) off the R street local. This is how it worked in the 60's when I worked in a salmon cannery in theShades of the Alaska Packers! (until the 1930s or so, having the largest fleet of American-flagged sailing ships), home-ported in Alameda CA and rail-served off the Alameda Belt. Chignik AK was the seasonal port. -- Willie was a chemist, Now Willie is no more. What Willie thought was H2O Was H2SO4 |
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Bill l was going to post the same photo. And I have others of loose cans in cars. A lot of vegetables and meat were canned in Iowa. The large cities had can factories, but they were not always next doors to the canneries or meat plants. So the empty cans were delivered where they were needed by rail or truck. A few plants could roll their own cans, so they got flat stock.
Doug Harding https://www.facebook.com/douglas.harding.3156/ Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Parks via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 10:29 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Canning - was Re: Baggage cars in freight trains
Here is a 1939 photo of unloading cans that were shipped loose - |
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Jay Styron
My Dad worked for Continental Can, and I spent a summer working in their bottle cap factory in Wilmington, Delaware. They would get raw cork off of ships, grind it in the cork mill and form it into various shapes and sizes. Bottle caps at the time (late ‘60’s) used cork seals. The plant would receive printed sheet metal for the bottle caps, called “crowns”, run it through punch presses, and ship the finished product in cartons about 12”X18”. I spent a lot of time loading these cartons into boxcars, floor to ceiling. The skeletons from the punch press operation, resembling furnace filters, would be tossed into a waiting gondola and shipped off as scrap. Boxcar door openings would be sealed off with Signode straps and paper, nailed into the wood interior of the cars. Boxcars were sometimes poorly spotted, and one of the guys was expert in hooking up a comealong, releasing the brake, and working the car into position. Stubborn boxcar doors were often helped along by the use of a “Towmotor”, local generic term for forklift. Dock plates were thrown down, bridging between warehouse floor and boxcar, something I’ve never seen modeled, oddly enough. Lot of memories from that summer, walking down to the local bar at lunch for a 7oz Rolling Rock and a burger. The guys were such characters…
-Jay Styron |
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Yes, American Can and Continental Can BOTH had large can plants in Seattle, as I mentioned earlier. American Can was on the Seattle downtown waterfront. Continental Can was near the Duwamish River that emptied into Puget Sound in south Seattle area. For RR content, here are some items:
Pier 69 now has no resemblance to what it looked like in the old days but I know there are some old photos of it on the internet somewhere as I have seen some. From the plant’s location, I must assume that NP switched American Can, probably exclusively.
The water tower on the roof used to have a big red concentric set of “CCC” on it for Continental Can Company. The water tower was left on the roof as a landmark but has not had any water in it since the 1965 Seattle earthquake. That earthquake caused the water tower on top of the Fisher’s flour mill to fall over and it caused the one fatality of that earthquake and was someone that our family knew. So water towers were drained after that so they wouldn’t slosh and fall over in earthquakes. Continental Can in Seattle was switched by UP. Some of the spur tracks are still visible. The junk yard next to the can plant to the west used to be Plant 31, the machine shop, and CCC owned all that property along the river and along the street where the junk yard is now (Seattle Iron & Metal).
I see the Bond Crown Division bottle cap plant on the map in Wilmington that Jay Styron mentioned. Also, look at the blue patches in VA, NC, SC, GA, and LA states. That land was owned (or leased) by Continental Can for their paper products divisions. That would make some good loads in and out for those who model the south, similar to what us Pacific Northwest modelers do with Weyerhaeuser and Scott Paper loads. Pulp wood and chemicals in, paper and cardboard out.
Doug Paasch Also waxing nostalgic about the good old days in Seattle
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 11:17 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Canning - was Re: Baggage cars in freight trains
American can was another big mfgr of cans.
FWIW the sheet steel used to make cans was HUGE source of profit for steel mills, far more than anything else. As an example, there was a US Steel mill in Pittsburg CA that received sheet steel from Utah (DRGW/WP) to treat the metal for use in making cans. AFAIK it was pretty much all the plant did.
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Doug/all, |
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Dennis Storzek
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 02:43 PM, Doug Paasch wrote:
Here is an item of possible nostalgia for some of you. I scarfed the attached map of Continental Can plants when they shut down Plant 13 in the 1970’s. I don’t know what year the map was made though.I've been wondering why empty cans were shipped from Cleveland to Wisconsin, As I was sure there were can plants in Chicago if not closer. All I can figure is not all plants made all sizes, and they traded increased shipping costs for economies of scale on some of the lesser used sizes. Dennis Storzek |
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Yes Dennis,
It is true that some can plants made certain cans, and other plants made other types of cans. The plants made what types of cans were needed in large volumes for the industries in their areas. And I mean LARGE volumes, as in millions of cans, as the machinery is big, heavy, expensive, and specific to a type/size of can. And boy did that can plant pound and vibrate from the machinery. The physical building was quite a substantial investment, as well as the machinery. So, small volume customers would indeed have to order from can plants far away if they weren’t near a high-volume customer for the same type of can.
That’s why the Seattle plant made lots of fish cans, because of the Alaska and Washington fish canneries. BTW, the Alaska commercial fishing fleet was, and still is, based in Seattle at the Port of Seattle’s Fisherman’s Terminal at the north end of Interbay (as in BNSF’s, nee BN’s, nee GN’s Interbay), and at Pier 91 (former Navy Pier) at the south end of Interbay. Back in GN days, there was a Western Fruit Express (as in GN’s subsidiary in the WFE/BRE/FGE consortium) icing platform at Interbay (steam era content) along GN’s main out of the north end of the yard. The fishing industry today still uses a LOT of ice. Back in the steam era days, the reefers for shipping fish used a lot of ice, too, and Seattle was where a lot of fish were brought in from Alaska and local waters.
Doug Paasch
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 6:34 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Canning - was Re: Baggage cars in freight trains
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 02:43 PM, Doug Paasch wrote:
I've been wondering why empty cans were shipped from Cleveland to Wisconsin, As I was sure there were can plants in Chicago if not closer. All I can figure is not all plants made all sizes, and they traded increased shipping costs for economies of scale on some of the lesser used sizes. |
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Could railroad tariffs (say, for empty ice reefers) offer "deep discounts" for returning loads for cars that otherwise would tend to return empty ? Maybe the extra shipping cost of those cans is not as high as you might think. I wonder if there were discount rates for empty beer kegs, and empty barrels, and empty pallets. On 11/18/2022 8:34 PM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io wrote: On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 02:43 PM, Doug Paasch wrote: --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Tim
Before deregulation the several commodity tariffs had a ‘five for one rule’ for returnable dunnage and pallets. Meaning the consignee was to load the pallets into one car that came in in five loads. The loaded pallet car was billed as a load and noted in the commodity section’Five for one rule’ or something similar. The car also moved back to the original shipper free. These was to reduce claims by shippers when their pallets or dunnage was lost. -- Charlie Duckworth Omaha, Ne. |
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William Hirt
My dad worked at Continental Can plants in Omaha, St. Joseph MO
and two of the plants in the Chicago area (Plants 51 and 64). I
know that Plant 51 on S. Ashland Ave in Chicago made cans for
Dubuque packing in Dubuque, IA, as my dad visited the packer
several times. I assume they were cans for canned hams which was a
big item for Dubuque packing. When he worked at the St. Joseph MO plant, one of their big
customers was Trenton Foods in Trenton, MO. Trenton Foods produced
products like Vienna Sausage for most of meat packers. We used to
have cases of Vienna Sausage from there in our basement. The big
meat packers (Armour and Swift) were still operating in St.
Joseph, so the can plant did good business. They also made cans
for the Goetz (later Pearl) brewery in St. Joseph. My dad said
Continental got their investment back in 3 years on that plant. On 11/18/2022 9:18 PM, Doug Paasch
wrote:
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Thanks Charlie ! It could add interest to a layout to incorporate this into operations. On 11/19/2022 9:48 AM, Charlie Duckworth via groups.io wrote: Tim --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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William Hirt
My dad worked at Continental Can plants in Omaha, St. Joseph MO
and two of the plants in the Chicago area (Plants 51 and 64). I
know that Plant 51 on S. Ashland Ave in Chicago made cans for
Dubuque packing in Dubuque, IA, as my dad visited the packer
several times. I assume they were cans for canned hams which was a
big item for Dubuque packing. When he worked at the St. Joseph MO plant, one of their big customers was Trenton Foods in Trenton, MO. Trenton Foods produced products like Vienna Sausage for most of meat packers. We used to have cases of Vienna Sausage from there in our basement. The big meat packers (Armour and Swift) were still operating in St. Joseph, so the can plant did good business. They also made cans for the Goetz (later Pearl) brewery in St. Joseph. My dad said Continental got their investment back in 3 years on that plant. Bill Hirt On 11/18/2022 9:18 PM, Doug Paasch
wrote:
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Andy Laurent
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 05:34 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I've been wondering why empty cans were shipped from Cleveland to Wisconsin, As I was sure there were can plants in Chicago if not closer. All I can figure is not all plants made all sizes, and they traded increased shipping costs for economies of scale on some of the lesser used sizes.Speaking of inbound cans to Wisconsin, the Evangeline Milk Company in Sturgeon Bay, Wisc on the Ahnapee & Western Rwy received baby cans from Phelps Can in Weirton, West Virginia on the PRR. They also received larger (#6) cans from American Can Co in Brighton Park (Chicago), Ill on the B&OCT. In later years, Phelps acquired a can plant in Burlington, Wisc. on the SOO and some cans started to be sourced there. Railroad pricing tariffs might help explain some of it, but I've discovered that a lot of commodity lanes and purchasing relationships were not based on distance or efficiency of rail routes! Andy L. Madison WI |
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