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Box cars in cargo ships?
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David Wiggs
Your comment about SeaTrain attempting to become a container carrier after going bankrupt is misleading as they were a container carrier with four huge ships that I personally know of. I worked for the Charleston Ports Authority for nine or so years as a journeyman electrician troubleshooting and repairing container cranes, and those four ships, Euro Freighter, Euro Liner, Asia Freighter, and Asia Liner that frequented our North Charleston terminal, were huge. Typically, we would put four cranes on each ship and they'd work around the clock for about three days; lotsa 20 and 40 foot boxes, with a 900 forty foot container capacity. A lot at that time, but not so many nowadays. The 800 foot ships were powered by gas turbine engines; propulsion and power generation and cruised at about 27 knots. They were changed to diesel in the 80s and the company went bankrupt again during conversion of the third ship. |
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Bill Parks
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 11:02 AM, reubeft wrote:
Thanks Bill for the clarifications.One other clarification. When WIF bought the "Seatrain New Orleans" in 1953, they really bought Seatrain's rights to the New Orleans-Havanna line. The ship was included as part of the deal. -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida |
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reubeft
Oops forgot. BY
REUBEN @ Poplarville, Ms. |
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reubeft
Thanks Bill for the clarifications. Didn't have my Seatrain info with me. Got some good pics from the CoG Historical Society of Seatrain loading. The Belle Chasse loader was removed in the early 2000's. Few piers and the concrete piers remain. Serviced by the N.O.L.C. RR, New Orleans Lower Coast. A sub of the Missouri Pacific. Started life has the New Orleans Fort Jackson & Grand Isle RR. Known has the "Orange Blossom Route". Numerous orange groves along the route. During WWII served the ammo dump "Concordia Switch" at English Turn along the river.
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Bill Parks
On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:10 PM, reubeft wrote:
WIF&S West India Fruit & Steamship ships loaded their railcars from the stern. Service was only between Cuba and I believe West Palm Beach, Florida.This is true with one exception. WIF bought from Seatrain the "SS Seatrain New Orleans" (renamed to "SS Sea Level") which was one of Seatrain's four deck ships that was loaded by cranes. It was also different from the rest of the fleet as it did not run between Havanna and West Palm, but between Havanna and Belle Chase. -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida |
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reubeft
Seatrain terminals were, Belle Chasse ( below New Orleans), Texas City, Texas, Savannah, Ga. or Norfolk Va. and Havana, Cuba. Don't recall any service to PR. Service started in the late 1920's or early 1930's. Vessel were built specifically for handling 40 foot cars of all types. Usually boxcars and tank cars. Tank cars carried in many cases liquid sugar processed in Cuba During WWII the vessels moved tanks, aircraft, and U.S. built railroad locos, etc. Used to replace destroyed equipment in Europe.
Service was discontinued in the early 1960's, has car lengths and weights increased. Also political issues in Cuba came into play. Seatrain always found itself in court with continuing legal battles vs. various railroads. Seatrain went into bankruptcy and attempted to be a container carrier and tankers. WIF&S West India Fruit & Steamship ships loaded their railcars from the stern. Service was only between Cuba and I believe West Palm Beach, Florida. There are photos of WIF&S in New Orleans. The service had a truck marshalling yard along the Mississippi River in New Orleans. I had a photo of one of the ships listing in a scrap yard. Apparently being readied for scrapping. "Trains" magazine had an excellent article on the history os Sea Train in a past issue. The special interest group, Rail Marine Historical early issues had a series also. Believe nit is available on a CD. Reuben@ Poplarville, Ms. |
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Scott H. Haycock
Richard Townsend wrote:
Without seeing the photo could the cars have been being loaded on the ship as new cars being delivered to the island from the manufacturer?
The photo was actually a short excerpt from a newsreel clip. The roof of the car was all that showed as it was being lowered into a ship's hold. The roof wasn't new, so I believe it was a car in service.
The clip wasn't specifically tied to the General Whitney, the ship they were discussing. It probably was 'stock' footage of a car being loaded for Cuba, as was previously mentioned in this thread.
What grabbed my interest was the idea of a boxcar of copper being loaded in New Orleans on a ship bound for an east coast destination.
I Googled the General Whitney, and found ONE reference- a Google first for me!
Scott Haycock |
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Richard Townsend
Well, maybe I should have read the thread before I responded. Disregard my earlier comment. Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2022 6:32 pm Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Box cars in cargo ships? As far as I know, Puerto Rico does not have a rail system. There used to be a system, which I believe was narrow gauge. Without seeing the photo could the cars have been being loaded on the ship as new cars being delivered to the island from the manufacturer?
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Richard Townsend
As far as I know, Puerto Rico does not have a rail system. There used to be a system, which I believe was narrow gauge. Without seeing the photo could the cars have been being loaded on the ship as new cars being delivered to the island from the manufacturer?
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David Wiggs
Stupid comment I'm sure, but I didn't realize Puerto Rico had a rail system. |
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Doug Pillow
Sea train lines had ships with rail tracks on three decks I served on the Seatrain Texas we carried rail cars between Edgewater NJ and San Juan Puerto Rico Doug Pillow
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Philip Dove
Round the world railway ferries occurred in many places. During the latter days of the First World War there were two military train ferries working between Richborough England and France. Post War there were rail ferries between England and both Belgium and France. The latter took "The golden arrow" aka "Fleche d'or"London Paris express train. On the Great lakes there were railroad ferries l beleive the Badger was the last ferry to carry trains, but there was a ferry taking excess height cars across the Saint Claire River between Port Huron, mi. and Sarnia Ont until the new taller tunnel came into use circa 1990. Putting complete cars into the hold of a ship is more unusual though there was an international market in Rolling stock which meant newcars and locos would travel onboard freighters. |
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Bill Parks
As I remember it, Sea Train got its start (about 100 years ago) by shipping railcars (mainly between USA and Cuba) and their original ships were specially built cargo ships where the rail cars were loaded/unloaded by crane. I think one of these ships was later purchased by West India Fruit Company (which also had a fleet of car ferries) and was used up until they stopped operations after Castro took over Cuba.
-- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida |
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Scott H. Haycock
Folks,
I was watching a TV program that included an old newsreel segment of a box car being loaded into the hold of a cargo ship. The program, History Channel's new series about the Bermuda Triangle, implied this as being a load of copper being hoisted by crane into a ship in New Orleans, presumably bound for the East Coast. The ship, The General Whitney, was lost in the Triangle in 1899. How often was this practice used? I'd never seen anything like this outside of car ferries, which are designed for the cars to be rolled onto the ship. Scott Haycock |
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