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Tichy 4028 USRA steel rebuilt box car

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks Ken:

I will also dig out the Hendrickson article.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...>
Date: 1/4/23 8:42 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tichy 4028 USRA steel rebuilt box car

Bill Pardie,

It is on the side with the triple valves and not applied when newly rebuilt.   

This photo shows one version just behind the door. I modeled mine from a picture of the Richard Hendricksen model in his July 1993 RMJ article on the P&LE cars before I had this picture.


I don't have the specific reference but remember reading about the protective cover plates applied to some boxcars when AB brakes were installed in material on the NYC Historical Society website.
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Ken Adams
 

Bill Pardie,

It is on the side with the triple valves and not applied when newly rebuilt.   

This photo shows one version just behind the door. I modeled mine from a picture of the Richard Hendricksen model in his July 1993 RMJ article on the P&LE cars before I had this picture.


I don't have the specific reference but remember reading about the protective cover plates applied to some boxcars when AB brakes were installed in material on the NYC Historical Society website.
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Ken, I appreciate you sending the photos of the P&LE rebuilt car. Regretfully I still do not see the protector for the brake valve;

Bill Pardie

On Jan 3, 2023, at 1:40 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Bill Pardie wrote:

I initially used Accurai Andrews trucks under these cars but the longer wheelbase just did not look right. I should have taken a photo for comparison.
Some early SP stock cars did have Andrews trucks, but they were the early L-section trucks with the long bottom strap, as produced by Kadee. But the majority, including those shown in the photo, were built with, and retained, Vulcan trucks. A small minority of cars had T-section trucks.

Tony Thompson
tony@...
Tony Thompson
 

Bill Pardie wrote:

I initially used Accurai Andrews trucks under these cars but the longer wheelbase just did not look right. I should have taken a photo for comparison.
Some early SP stock cars did have Andrews trucks, but they were the early L-section trucks with the long bottom strap, as produced by Kadee. But the majority, including those shown in the photo, were built with, and retained, Vulcan trucks. A small minority of cars had T-section trucks.

Tony Thompson
tony@...
Dan Smith
 

Ken,

Thanks for posting the image.

One thing I would like to improve on my model is the lower door track.

Can anyone direct me to an image that shows the flanges and gussets in detail.
That is one detail I have newer been satisfied with.

Thanks for any help.

Happy New Year,
Dan Smith
Ken Adams
 

Dennis


--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
WILLIAM PARDIE
 



On Jan 2, 2023, at 8:59 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

The Accurail Andrews trucks are very nice, but reflect a 70-ton version. The wheelbase is slightly longer.
 
_._,_._,_

I initially used Accurai Andrews trucks under these cars but the longer wheelbase just did not look right.  I should have taken a photo for comparison.

Bill Pardie
Dennis Storzek
 

Tim,
Show us a pic of the P&LE cars so people can see the different corner construction, please.

Dennis Storzek
Tim O'Connor
 


a couple more photos (both with SRE roofs)

On 1/2/2023 4:10 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

My suspicion was always that the FtDDM&S rebuilt USRA boxcars were either RI or C&NW, or both.

 

I have accumulated several photos of them from a variety of sources.   This snip comes from FtDDM&S 15040 and the new sides are supported by triangular gussets.  The RI purchased/leased some ex-C&NW rebuilds in the 50’s that had triangular gussets.



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

fddm&s_15008 40ft_SD_box USRA rebuild exRI_ fresh-paint 11-1957.JimSands.jpg

ri_134710 40ft_SD_box USRA rebuild.JimSands.jpg

Tim O'Connor
 


I remember Richard Hendrickson saying that the Accurail Bettendorf truck also is a 70 ton truck
due to the wheelbase, I think. When I built my Sunshine R-70-2 PFE reefer I remember he included
a cast resin spring so you could modify the Accurail truck to have a 3rd spring.


On 1/2/2023 2:08 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

The Accurail truck is a nice truck, however. the wheels are spaced a little further apart than the Kadee and Tahoe..  I discovered this when building some 36 ft stock cars.  The Acurail did not look right.

Now if someone would just produce the Santa Fe version of the Andrews truck I will finally be the complete man.  I have been beating this drum for years.

Bill Pardie


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Benjamin Scanlon
 

From what I understand many of these had Viking roofs, at least those with a C&NW / CMO origin , if which the RI ended up leasing 800. 


Also I don’t know that the Tichy car end is right for the particular one on these rebuilds with its blank panel?
--
Ben Scanlon
Tottenham, England
Clark Propst
 

Erice asked: “Did the Fort Dodge cars come from the P&LE/PMcK&Y?”
 
No they’re xRI, so the Tichy kit is wrong. Need Chad Boas’ kit. 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
golden1014
 

The Tichy model is technically incorrect.  The car pictured is a former rebuilt RI or CNW car.  Check the spacer panel in the USRA ends.  The car pictures is taller and has been modified.

John Golden
brianleppert@att.net
 

Eric Hansmann wondered about the prototype of Walthers/Proto200 Andrews trucks.  I think theirs is based the trucks under this Mather box car.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

MRS 7503.jpg

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks for sharing, I’m learning a lot 
Fenton 


On Jan 2, 2023, at 5:28 PM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io <soolinehistory@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 02:07 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:
And we still need to answer the OP's original question about the Tichy kit roof being correct for the Fort Dodge prototype. 
A bigger problem than the roof is the ends. As Eric mentioned, The Tichy kit models cars P&LE rebuilt from USRA SINGLE SHEATHED boxcars. Those cars had narrower ends than the double sheathed cars, so the small offset typically used to adapt the new sides, shown in all the photos presented so far, wouldn't work. The solution was wide angles riveted to the face of the ends, which Tichy faithfully models. The other issue, also mentioned, is P&LE did not increase the height of their cars, so the ends lack the flat panel spliced between the top two corrugated panels.

Dennis Storzek

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 02:07 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:
And we still need to answer the OP's original question about the Tichy kit roof being correct for the Fort Dodge prototype. 
A bigger problem than the roof is the ends. As Eric mentioned, The Tichy kit models cars P&LE rebuilt from USRA SINGLE SHEATHED boxcars. Those cars had narrower ends than the double sheathed cars, so the small offset typically used to adapt the new sides, shown in all the photos presented so far, wouldn't work. The solution was wide angles riveted to the face of the ends, which Tichy faithfully models. The other issue, also mentioned, is P&LE did not increase the height of their cars, so the ends lack the flat panel spliced between the top two corrugated panels.

Dennis Storzek
Steve and Barb Hile
 

My suspicion was always that the FtDDM&S rebuilt USRA boxcars were either RI or C&NW, or both.

 

I have accumulated several photos of them from a variety of sources.   This snip comes from FtDDM&S 15040 and the new sides are supported by triangular gussets.  The RI purchased/leased some ex-C&NW rebuilds in the 50’s that had triangular gussets.

 

  

 

While Andy’s photo shows clipped rectangular gussets which were common with Rock Island rebuilds in the 134xxx series.

 

  

 

Both the RI and C&NW cars had uneven side panel spacing W-N-N-W-D-W-N-N-W (W=Wider, N=Narrower, D=Door).  I think that the Tichy car has even side panel widths.

 

Also note that both the RI and C&NW cars had a blank panel between the upper and two lower corrugated end panels.

 

Perhaps TMI.

 

Happy New Year,

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2023 2:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tichy 4028 USRA steel rebuilt box car

 

Did the Fort Dodge cars come from the P&LE/PMcK&Y? The Tichy kit reflects the rebuild done for the P&LE/PMcK&Y prototypes. 

 

USRA box car rebuilds had differences across owners. Few, if any, were rebuilt in the same way. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Media, PA



On Jan 2, 2023, at 3:06 PM, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:

And what prototype do the Tichy Andrews trucks represent?

When I recently built a P&LE version of the Tichy kit, I sourced the Proto2000 trucks from eBay as they appeared to most closely resemble the trucks in various prototype photos. It is a great kit to build. If you purchased your kit recently it may not have the template for the side grab irons.  Mine didn't. I made my own from thick sheet plastic and it worked. My notes on the build are at 
https://srandsp.blogspot.com/2022/06/here-it-is-middle-of-june-and-i-finally.html and  https://srandsp.blogspot.com/2022/05/port-costa-layout-in-stasis-for-april.html (covers the template)

And we still need to answer the OP's original question about the Tichy kit roof being correct for the Fort Dodge prototype. 
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Rich C
 

The Ft D DM & S are all ex- Rock Island

Rich Christie
brianleppert@att.net
 

I believe the Tichy Andrews truck is based on drawings for an Andrews type by Buckeye Steel Castings Co. appearing in the 1928 edition (and maybe other years) of the Car Builders' Cyclopedia, page 810. Although  very well dimensioned,  I have never seen photos of a real truck made following that drawing.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV
Dave Parker
 

I know we have covered some or much of this before, but here are a couple of thoughts:

1.  In the photo that Andy originally posted, those look like straight-up USRA Andrews to me.  If it's a rebuilt USRA car, that would seem the simplest explanation for the origin of the trucks.

2.  I agree with Brian; the Tahoe MW Andrews is the most accurate and available version of the USRA truck.  I would note that Rapido now makes a similarly accurate truck but, to date, it only seems to come with their USRA box-cars.  The Rapido 2D-F8 (also nicely done) is available separately, so perhaps the Andrews will be some day as well.

3.  Here is a photo that compares the Tahoe (top)  and Accurail (bottom) Andrews trucks:


,
You can see the "elongation:" of the Accurail (it is on 68 or 69" wheelbase) and it looks a little beefier in the center.  The longer wheelbase is consistent with a 70-ton truck, but the Accurail looks NOTHING like the actual 70-ton Andrews:



The Bowser Crown 2E-F2 gets you pretty close the USRA 70-tonner, but there are some measurable differences in side-frame shape and dimensions.

Hope this helps.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

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