Shipping Wine by Rail (was Re: [RealSTMFC] CA vegetables sent east)


Benjamin Hom
 

Alex Schneider asked:
"Why were multi tank cars used to transport wine? Wasn't it all going to the same bottling plant?"

See Tony Thompson's blog for an information sheet by Richard Hendrickson, plus more on the subject of shipping wine by rail.


Ben Hom


Alex Schneider
 

Thanks Ben, lot of information. I guess what I was asking is, did they ship cabernet in one tank and merlot in another, etc.? I'm not seeing that in the Thompson/Hendrickson material. 

Alex Schneider


Ken Adams
 

Alex

We have changed cultrually very much as a nation since the steam era.

Back in the days of the steam era (after Prohibition), California varietals such as cabernet or merlot would probably be bottled at the winery and shipped in box cars or such small quantities as would go LCL.

Most 1950's Americans who drank any wine only partook of it at Communion if there church practiced it.  

Before 1960 few Americans understood any more than that American origin wine was either red or white and those that did weren't the ones buying wine that was shipped across the country in tank cars.   It was my understanding that bulk shipped tank car load california red was used to cut the strong concord grape taste of NY or other parts of New England wine. Ethinic restaurants served only a choice of red or white or high priced imported (except Italian Chianti which was not hight priced.)  Serving a California cabernet in the 1950's would make you out to be sume sort of rube to those east coast wine drinkers (snobs) used to imported wine from France. Central Valley muscats were sold in gallon jugs and were considered a prime cheap drunk for skid rows across the country.
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Tony Thompson
 

Ken Adams wrote:

Alex

We have changed cultrually very much as a nation since the steam era.

Back in the days of the steam era (after Prohibition), California varietals such as cabernet or merlot would probably be bottled at the winery and shipped in box cars or such small quantities as would go LCL.

Most 1950's Americans who drank any wine only partook of it at Communion if there church practiced it.

Before 1960 few Americans understood any more than that American origin wine was either red or white and those that did weren't the ones buying wine that was shipped across the country in tank cars. It was my understanding that bulk shipped tank car load california red was used to cut the strong concord grape taste of NY or other parts of New England wine. Ethinic restaurants served only a choice of red or white or high priced imported (except Italian Chianti which was not hight priced.) Serving a California cabernet in the 1950's would make you out to be sume sort of rube to those east coast wine drinkers (snobs) used to imported wine from France. Central Valley muscats were sold in gallon jugs and were considered a prime cheap drunk for skid rows across the country.
Everything Ken says above is essentially true, but misses an important point. As late as 1960, the majority of wine consumed in the U.S. was not traditional wines of the kind he describes, but were “fortified” wines with added alcohol. This was not to increase the “bang per buck” but to make a stable product that could be sweeter. This includes port, sherry, madeira and other varieties. As late as 1962, American consumption was still 61% fortified wine (it had been 81% right after Prohibition). Today it is around 25%, interesting because that is about the same as pre-Prohibition.


https://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/02/wine-as-industrial-commodity.html


 

Didn’t Santa Fe ship bottled wine bottled MET to the rest of US?

Andy Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA


Tim O'Connor
 


Large amounts of wine are made at home, using bulk grapes. A friend of mine in
New Jersey bottles a dozen or so cases every year. I think this was especially popular
during Prohibition, but undoubtedly has been true since it was possible to ship fresh
grapes to the east coast.


On 1/3/2023 9:05 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Ken Adams wrote:
Alex

We have changed cultrually very much as a nation since the steam era.

Back in the days of the steam era (after Prohibition), California varietals such as cabernet or merlot would probably be bottled at the winery and shipped in box cars or such small quantities as would go LCL.

Most 1950's Americans who drank any wine only partook of it at Communion if there church practiced it.  

Before 1960 few Americans understood any more than that American origin wine was either red or white and those that did weren't the ones buying wine that was shipped across the country in tank cars.   It was my understanding that bulk shipped tank car load california red was used to cut the strong concord grape taste of NY or other parts of New England wine. Ethinic restaurants served only a choice of red or white or high priced imported (except Italian Chianti which was not hight priced.)  Serving a California cabernet in the 1950's would make you out to be sume sort of rube to those east coast wine drinkers (snobs) used to imported wine from France. Central Valley muscats were sold in gallon jugs and were considered a prime cheap drunk for skid rows across the country.
Everything Ken says above is essentially true, but misses an important point. As late as 1960, the majority of wine consumed in the U.S. was not traditional wines of the kind he describes, but were “fortified” wines with added alcohol. This was not to  increase the “bang per buck” but to make a stable product that could be sweeter. This includes port, sherry, madeira and other varieties. As late as 1962, American consumption was still 61% fortified wine (it had been 81% right after Prohibition). Today it is around 25%, interesting because that is about the same as pre-Prohibition.


https://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/02/wine-as-industrial-commodity.html








--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Ken Adams
 

Tony

Any port (or sherry, madiera,etc) in a storm...

The PFE protective service provided to tank car shipments related to wine shipments I remember in the early 1970's were California wine varietal grape juice not fermented wine. They were odd protective service waybills for shipments not in PFE equipment.  The grape juice was used to dilute the Concord grape juice before being made into wine. The protective service was for winter shipments to ensure the tank car heaters were working and fueled while they were on SP-UP lines. 

glug...

--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Tom Madden
 

Back in the 1960s all I knew about wine was that my mother often fancied a small glass of Port wine after dinner, and the New York TV channels had lots of advertisements for Mogen David, Manischewitz and Gallo Brothers wines. A Wikipedia article shows that Mogen David wine was processed at their Chicago facility, and in 1953 they processed almost 5 million gallons of wine, all of it fortified, all of it kosher. (Up from 75,000 gallons in 1946.)Their sources pre-1950 were grape growers in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan. No mention of other sources supporting the huge increase in production.

Some years later, on our first visit to the Napa Valley, I asked at one winery (Beringer's?) about Port wine. The guide gently told me it was for older drinkers whose taste buds were no longer sensitive enough to appreciate the subtle and complex flavors of better wines.

Tom Madden, who never could appreciate those sweet kosher wines


Tony Thompson
 



 Tom Madden wrote:

Some years later, on our first visit to the Napa Valley, I asked at one winery (Beringer's?) about Port wine. The guide gently told me it was for older drinkers whose taste buds were no longer sensitive enough to appreciate the subtle and complex flavors of better wines.

That was a remarkably ignorant person, or was repeating the company line. As I learned by living a year in a Cambridge college, port is in fact a quite sophisticated beverage and well worth savoring . . . If you get the good stuff. Same is true of sherry, similar course of instruction.
Tony Thompson 
_._,_._,_


B.L. Griffith
 

In the mid to late sixties the only thing I knew about wine as a young Navy seaman on the east coast was that a bottle of Sly Fox was about as cheap a drunk as you could get on. 

Today my main wine concern would be if a particular billboard painted wine car is prototypical to the era I model.  


Rod Miller
 

A well documented shipping of CA wine to the east coast by rail is the shipments by Chateau Martin: http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html


Robert G P
 

Ive actually wondered that before but figured it was different types/grades. Presumably being bottled by the same place.

-Rob

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 9:22 AM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Alex Schneider asked:
"Why were multi tank cars used to transport wine? Wasn't it all going to the same bottling plant?"

See Tony Thompson's blog for an information sheet by Richard Hendrickson, plus more on the subject of shipping wine by rail.


Ben Hom


mark_landgraf
 

About 40 yrs ago. used to call on wine bottler on the Brooklyn waterfront, served by NY Dock RR, that routinely received triple dome small tank cars from California.  When I inquired, I was told that the car contained three different wines and that they blended them, and then bottled them for local distribution.

After that experience, I never quite looked at wine the same. Somehow it all seemed to taste like it came from a rr tank car.

Mark Landgraf


On Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 9:04:14 PM EST, Robert G P <bobgp5109@...> wrote:


Ive actually wondered that before but figured it was different types/grades. Presumably being bottled by the same place.

-Rob

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 9:22 AM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Alex Schneider asked:
"Why were multi tank cars used to transport wine? Wasn't it all going to the same bottling plant?"

See Tony Thompson's blog for an information sheet by Richard Hendrickson, plus more on the subject of shipping wine by rail.


Ben Hom


Alex Schneider
 

Thanks Mark. Just what I wanted to know. 

Alex Schneider


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mark_landgraf via groups.io <mark_landgraf@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 8:15:58 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Shipping Wine by Rail (was Re: [RealSTMFC] CA vegetables sent east)
 
About 40 yrs ago. used to call on wine bottler on the Brooklyn waterfront, served by NY Dock RR, that routinely received triple dome small tank cars from California.  When I inquired, I was told that the car contained three different wines and that they blended them, and then bottled them for local distribution.

After that experience, I never quite looked at wine the same. Somehow it all seemed to taste like it came from a rr tank car.

Mark Landgraf


On Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 9:04:14 PM EST, Robert G P <bobgp5109@...> wrote:


Ive actually wondered that before but figured it was different types/grades. Presumably being bottled by the same place.

-Rob

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 9:22 AM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Alex Schneider asked:
"Why were multi tank cars used to transport wine? Wasn't it all going to the same bottling plant?"

See Tony Thompson's blog for an information sheet by Richard Hendrickson, plus more on the subject of shipping wine by rail.


Ben Hom