Date
1 - 20 of 32
Significance of the P&LE / PMcK&Y USRA single sheathed rebuilds ?
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Jeffrey White
Ken, I wouldn't be afraid of buying a new kit. I had a tank car kit that the mold for the running boards didn't fill completely. An email to Tichy and I had a new sprue within a couple days. Jeff White Alma IL On 1/6/2023 6:02 PM, Ken Adams wrote:
I've had the Gould/Tichy 120 ton crane kit on my to eventually buy and build for decades but I got a wiff in this discussion that that they dies are worn and that I should be looking for an old kit made up maybe 10 or more years ago. |
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I've had the Gould/Tichy 120 ton crane kit on my to eventually buy and build for decades but I got a wiff in this discussion that that they dies are worn and that I should be looking for an old kit made up maybe 10 or more years ago.
There were minor part completeness issues with both the 40 foot flat car that I built in 2021 and with the P&LE rebuilt USRA box car kit I built in 2022 both recently purchased at my local hobby shop but none that could not be overcome as I have a significant stock of Tichy parts on hand. Does anyone have an older unbuilt kit in their stash they would like to part with at current retail or less? Please contact me with a private (off line) message if you do. With the pending publication of Ken Harrison's extensive tome on Espee MOW equipment, I am looking at several HO projects for 2023-2024. -- Ken Adams Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
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Benjamin Scanlon
Thanks to all for chipping in on this topic.
I found the discussion very instructive & interesting. -- Ben Scanlon Tottenham, England |
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Craig Wilson
I think Sunshine offered a mini-kit for the PMcK&Y box car to model the WABASH version, which had a different end. Wabash also had double sheathed rebuilds. But the above mini-kit cars ended up on the Ann Arbor as well. IIRC those Sunshine parts were a "mini-kit" given out at one of the Naperville RPM meets. My friend, the late Arnt Gerritsen, managed to obtain three sets for me which someday I will turn into those ex-Wabash AA MofW cars. In addition to the ends, the Sunshine mini-kits included doors and a few other parts. As to the prototype cars, a few of them still exist - one as a storage car on the Great Lakes Central in Cadillac Michigan. And finally . . . your mission should you choose to accept it . . .  For a long time, AA X2624 sat at the Ann Arbor Freight House in Cadillac (in black paint like the photo Tim attached) used for storage of track materials. Then in 1972 (yeah, I know . . . in the future) the Michigan Artrain was scheduled to be on public display at the AA freight house and the local HS art class got permission to repaint the car for the event. The lettering was added a couple of years later when it was moved to the "Boat Landing" yard - this 1976 photo. Both sides of the car were painted differently and I have prints showing both sides as it appeared in 1972. Craig Wilson |
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Benjamin Hom
Ken Adams asked:
"Was the Martin Lofton article recent?" Sadly, Martin's been gone for a full decade now (January 4, 2013), so no, not recent. His rebuilt boxcar articles, which includied other non-USRA DS and SS boxcar rebuilds, appeared in several different magazines between 1989 and 1993, as detailed below: Railroad Model Craftsman: "Steel-Side USRA Rebuilds: Part I", September 1989 "Steel-Side USRA Rebuilds: Part II", October 1989 Santa Fe Modeler "USRA Boxcar Rebuilds", 2nd Quarter 1990 Model RailroadING "Boxcar Rebuilds: Part 1" (EJ&E, DT&I, RI, WAB), May 1990 "Boxcar Rebuilds: Part 2" (1937 AAR Look-Alikes), June 1990 "Boxcar Rebuilds: Part 3" (Modeling DT&I, WAB), July 1990 Railmodel Journal: "USRA Rebuilt Boxcars: Part I" (Rebuilt DS Cars), April 1992 "USRA Rebuilt Boxcars: Part II" (Rebuilt SS Cars), April 1992 "USRA Rebuilt Boxcars: Part III" (Rebuilt DS Cars), June 1992 Mainline Modeler: "NC&StL Boxcar, 36 ft Steel Rebuilds", June 1990 "Union Pacific B-50-17", May 1991 "Santa Fe Fe-5 to -19 Autocar Rebuilds", March 1993 "Santa Fe Bx-49 Boxcar - 1924 ARA Rebuilds", June 1993 Ben Hom |
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Joe Binish
I have been stripping paint and lettering from several Intermountain box car kits recently. They are modular with separate ends and roof castings. I have a lot of end castings from various sources but specific roof moldings are not that easy to come by. The ends and roofs in the kits I find on used shelves in hobby stores and at various auctions and swap meets never seem to match the prototypes I want to model. If Speedwitch or NSC or some other resin caster has made the right ones, they are usually out of stock. Was the Martin Lofton article recent? Unfortunately in 2019 I had to trash most of my RMC collection as I have limited townhouse storage space and it had gotton moldy in the garage from roof leak. -- Ken Adams Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
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Um, Eric, I think Sunshine offered a mini-kit for the PMcK&Y box car to model the WABASH version, which had a different end. Wabash also had double sheathed rebuilds. But the above mini-kit cars ended up on the Ann Arbor as well. On 1/4/2023 7:02 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
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Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Joseph
Changing the subject a bit, a modular kit to make the various rebuilds in plastic would be cool. My sunshine and boas built kits are among my favorite cars in my fleet. They have the “look”. Martin Lofton did a two part article in RMC of the various prototypes and modeled some of them. Charts and lists and the whole shebang Joe Binish Snowy New Hope, MN On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 8:53 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
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WILLIAM PARDIE
All of Gould's kits were engineering masterpieces. I always suspected that he got out of the business because of all the grief that cascaded down on him when he produced a tank car that had never been built. That is certainly our loss. Bill Pardie Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Date: 1/4/23 8:15 AM (GMT-10:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Significance of the P&LE / PMcK&Y USRA single sheathed rebuilds ? Georgia, not CofG. And I think it may only approximate the Georgia rebuilds, because of their roofs. Did Speedwitch offer a corrected version? On 1/4/2023 11:34 AM, Benjamin Scanlon
via groups.io wrote:
What Central of Georgia rebuilt car did they do, Bruce? -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Andy Carlson
What Bill Gould tragically learned the hard way was that making a great kit is only one part of successful marketing. How many of us have bought more than one Gould crane?. Now how many of us have bought more than one Intermountain R-40-23 PFE reefer, or how many of us have bought more than one Red Caboose '37 AAR box car? I remember at the time he sold his line to Tichy, the hobby was the loser on this. Bill did some mold making for N scale DimiTrains and his N scale SP GS gondola was remarkable for the time. But that was the end for anymore great HO stuff from Bill. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 06:31:33 PM PST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Tim,
IMHO the 120 ton Brownhoist is the finest HO scale car kit made. I'm shocked to hear from
Dennis that it did not sell well. The molds are getting very long in the tooth with lots of flash now, but in it's prime the molding was amazing and the engineering phenomenal. I've built two. One stock, and one more highly modified to better represent a PRR
W120.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Coca Beach, Fl (for the next 4 days!)
Didn't Mr. Gould also produce the 120 ton Brownhoist crane ? That's one of the finest kit models out there. He may have been 'limited' but the engineering of the kits was fabulous, imo, and no one until Tangent produced as high a quality tank car kit as his stillborn USRA tank car. (Which I have seen good numbers of them built and running at train shows.) On 1/4/2023 10:48 AM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 09:02 AM, Bruce Smith wrote: -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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YES! My bad... definitely Georgia, not C of G. And yes, the roof was not accurate, but
you can either fix it or get the Speedwitch kit.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Cocoa Beach, Fl (at least for the next 4 days)
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 12:15 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Significance of the P&LE / PMcK&Y USRA single sheathed rebuilds ?
Georgia, not CofG. And I think it may only approximate the Georgia rebuilds, because of their roofs. Did Speedwitch offer a corrected version? On 1/4/2023 11:34 AM, Benjamin Scanlon via groups.io wrote:
What Central of Georgia rebuilt car did they do, Bruce? -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Tim,
IMHO the 120 ton Brownhoist is the finest HO scale car kit made. I'm shocked to hear from
Dennis that it did not sell well. The molds are getting very long in the tooth with lots of flash now, but in it's prime the molding was amazing and the engineering phenomenal. I've built two. One stock, and one more highly modified to better represent a PRR
W120.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Coca Beach, Fl (for the next 4 days!)
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 12:21 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Significance of the P&LE / PMcK&Y USRA single sheathed rebuilds ?
Didn't Mr. Gould also produce the 120 ton Brownhoist crane ? That's one of the finest kit models out there. He may have been 'limited' but the engineering of the kits was fabulous, imo, and no one until Tangent produced as high a quality tank car kit as his stillborn USRA tank car. (Which I have seen good numbers of them built and running at train shows.) On 1/4/2023 10:48 AM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 09:02 AM, Bruce Smith wrote: -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Eric Hansmann
Larry,
Please note the P&LE/PMcK&Y cars were rebuilt from USRA single-sheathed box cars. The GTW and Wabash rebuilt their USRA double-sheathed box cars. Beyond the underframes, there were some differences in the hardware that were used.
There may also be different hardware used on the roof as that was another area that several railroads upgraded over time on their USRA box cars. I do not know what the GTW or Wabash upgraded on their cars beyond the steel sides.
BTW, a USRA freight car assignments resource is available on my blog. The tables cover original car assignments. Post-USRA clones or sales are note noted on the data. You can see what lines received the different USRA car designs.
Eric Hansmann
Media, PA
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lrkdbn
I believe the P&LE rebuild might have been the original application of the Youngstown rebuild kits for USRA cars
Also, it is very close to GTW and Wabash cars done a year or so later, the main difference being the underframe which a modeler of any ability at all should be able to cope with. I think Gould/Tichy does some fine stuff, and I wish their approach to kits would have more support than it seems to have. Larry King |
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Kenneth Montero
Speedwitch kit K-127 Georgia RR USRA 50 Ton Boxcar rebuilt w/Murphy radial roof
Ken Mnotero
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Dennis Storzek
Dennis,No, because the tank in the Gould tankcar kit came in four pieces which the modeler had to assemble, then add the tank heads. The four parts of the cylinder were all molded flat in a simple 'open and close' tool, the thickness of the parts governed by the curve of the tank. In theory the same could have been done with a three part tank, but the upper parts would have been overly thick and prone to sinks, otherwise the part of the mold that cored out the inside surface of the tank would have had to go 'across parting line' and that would have required fussy fitting of the angular surfaces that 'shut off' against the other half of the mold, which Gould apparently did not want to do. The most critical surfaces of any mold are not those that keep the plastic in (and form the surface of the part) rather it's the surfaces that fit together to keep the plastic OUT. Easiest by far is to keep them all in one flat plane. Dennis Storzek |
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Dennis,
You are suggesting that he chose a tank with longitudinal lines to help disguise the mold split lines?
-- Ted Larson trainweb.org/mhrr/ -------- NASG.org -------- https://www.nasg.org/Clubs/RegionsMinnesota.php GN in 1965 |
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Joseph
I have built the rebuild, the tank, the crane, the R40-4, and the boom car. Pretty nice kits from a modeler (assembly only) point of view. Did manage to screw up keeping the boom movable…. Joe Binish On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 2:26 PM Dennis Storzek via groups.io <soolinehistory=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote: On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 12:22 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote: |
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Dennis Storzek
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 12:22 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Didn't Mr. Gould also produce the 120 ton Brownhoist crane ? That's one of the finest kitYes, but let me explain. Gould was very skilled at engraving cavities, as was Cliff Grandt, but both pretty much limited themselves to simple 'open and close' tooling that could be done by engraving flat plates, rather than more complicated tooling that requires side actions that must fit together and fit the wedges that lock them closed. This is specifically what is needed to do bodies that incorporate sides, ends, and roof, or sides, ends, and floor into one part, which eases the assembly and decorating of a model. Sometimes the simplest part requires a really complex tool. Case in point is the running board that Kadee designed for their PS-1. A simple enough part, until you notice the free standing grab irons are molded integral with the open grid walkway. That requires side actions that slide over part of the open grid. Look closely at that part and note that the direction of the draft on the grid is reversed on the portion of the grid under the slide, yet the openings are all the same size. That mold took not only skill to make, but also skill to design, and balls to approve, since if it didn't work a LOT of money would be down the drain. Ask the old Branchline Trains crew just how easy it is to tool an open grid running board. Anyway, I've been told that the wrecker was directly responsible for Bill Gould leaving the model railroad industry. After it was released he started the PFE reefer, the watched the sales of the wrecker wither, became disenchanted, and put the line up for sale. Dennis Storzek |
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Benjamin Scanlon
Tim, good point, if it was the first to represent a rebuild, I agree, that makes it significant for the hobby.
Cheers, Ben -- Ben Scanlon Tottenham, England |
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