Stock cars in foreign territory.
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For a large yard oriented layout, like a club, that may have hundreds or even a thousand freight cars, having NO unusual cars would also seem to be a bit arbitrary and unlikely, since major transit yards probably had at least a few highly unusual cars every day... For operations the trick is for those cars NOT to appear in every op session. On 1/9/2023 3:55 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
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Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Tony Thompson
Somewhere I have a photo of a Katy stock car in the yard at San Luis Obispo, and the Jim Gerstley slide collection includes a Reading coal hopper at Los Angeles. I have decided not to model either one, as I believe those had to be rare occurrences. |
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A while back I came across a picture of a M-K-T stock car in a NWP train heading south towards the Bay Area. I have attached the picture. Katy expert, Bruce Blalock, said that their stock cars were sent offline to deliver cattle possibly used for breeding stock. Gene Deimling |
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Rob,
What is there to say? Carmer uncoupling levers were common until rotary rod uncoupling devices were recognized as being safer circa 1930 (the Carmer required that you push down, leading the possibility of slipping down between cars, whereas the rotary lever required that you pull up, and if you slipped you fell backwards away from the track). There were many different style or types of operating lever (to the left of the pivot) and lifting levers (to the right of the pivot. These were mixed and matched to some degree to fit the car. Many of these are available in etched brass from Yarmouth models, as is an excellent guide as to which cars used which combination of levers.
Regards, Bruce Smith Auburn, AL
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
A lot of interesting bits dropped here, the tile load mentioned is now an inspiration for me.
I like that Carmer cut lever a lot. Does anyone have anything to say about them?
-Rob
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 12:28 PM William Dale <lehighnewengland401@...> wrote:
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Robert G P
A lot of interesting bits dropped here, the tile load mentioned is now an inspiration for me. I like that Carmer cut lever a lot. Does anyone have anything to say about them? -Rob On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 12:28 PM William Dale <lehighnewengland401@...> wrote: I will chime in, in my files, I have Reading class SMc stock cars being requested by the CNJ for hauling oysters. This time frame the CNJ purged all their ventilator box cars, so what better than a stock car! |
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William Dale
I will chime in, in my files, I have Reading class SMc stock cars being requested by the CNJ for hauling oysters. This time frame the CNJ purged all their ventilator box cars, so what better than a stock car!
Billy |
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np328
I have the paperwork somewhere, however no access to it at the moment -- about an AAR directive ordering the B&O to send 25 (IIRC) stock cars west of the Mississippi to relieve temporary shortages in western territories.
One has to apply Thompson's Corollary* here I would believe. I had stated on this list many years ago that I was a member of a club layout in the Twin Cities where some of the members would bring in old Trains magazines with the "There's a prototype for everything column", and then proceed to model it on the layout. Even at RPM's I still hear that phrase from the attendees in presentations and having experienced first-person former club members use that phrase to justify their aberrant modeling, it always used to rub me the wrong way to the extent of leaving that club as Rule 4** was continually violated and I realized that no matter how congenial these guys were, they were not prototype modelers, just toy trainers. James Dick - Roseville, MN * I would add Thompson's corollary (Tony Thompson, that is): Model only what's plausible. Never model anything that causes other knowledgeable modelers to raise their eyebrows or requires that you be constantly explaining it, even if you have irrefutable evidence that it actually occurred. Richard Hendrickson ** Rule 4 (Nehrich's Rule): A layout filled with exceptions does not an exceptional layout make. |
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Paul Doggett
I have a Don Krofta B&O steam era DVD and a train headed by FAs I think, it has three SP stock cars in it which seems to be a long way from home on the B&O.
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Paul Doggett. England On 9 Jan 2023, at 14:47, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:
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Some years ago, I was doing research on Rock Island stock cars and operations for a clinic. Reviewing the photos, I saw multiple examples of foreign cars on RI trains. My favorites included an SP car in the Twin Cities, a B&O Mather car headed west across Illinois and a CP car at Colona, Illinois.
 
One of the happy circumstances of stock car operations is that they were generally placed just behind the locomotive and so, often, appear in railfan photographs.
So, non home road cars could certainly appear oftener than our conventional wisdom might suggest.
Steve Hile -----Original Message-----
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Sent: Jan 8, 2023 11:40 PM To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Stock cars in foreign territory.
I know from ICC records that livestock shipments in the far west did include state to state shipments that may have involved foreign road movements. First is the livevstock yards in Salt Lake City, served directly by only the Rio Grande and UP. Yet livestock sold and bought there did originate/terminate on other roads. Second, I know that Texas provided more livestock to California than any other state and while much of that may have originated on TNO/SP and ATSF lines there are more railroads than that in Texas. Last, I know there were livestock shipments from Montana to the stockyards in San Francisco. SP was nowhere near Montana so once again other roads would have originated that traffic.
What I don’t know is whether empty cars from such out-of-state traffic were routed all the way back as empties or whether the circulated locally as free ranging cars.
As for the hoppers, there is plenty of evidence that hoppers with either coke or coking coal travelled much further that ordinary boiler coal. That may account for the NYC hopper you saw.
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
I have been scanning some negatives from James Burke. This photo was taken in El Dorado, Kansas, March 18, 1951. Two things that jumped off the page at me is the New York Central stock car (Westerfield) and the PRR hopper with Carmer uncoupling lever. I have modeled that stock car but never expected to see one in this part of Kansas. It appears to be empty, headed to Wichita. I now have a prototype.
J. Stephen Sandifer
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George Eichelberger
All:
Not just stock cars….As most freight cars were “free running”, who owned the car was not always an indication of if it “should” be anywhere. There are multiple “nasty grams” in the SRHA files where Southern’s cars were not being returned empty but were “captured” and sent elsewhere. There was a long-running episode where the NYC was not returning cars, gondolas are mentioned the most, were loaded and shipped by the Central. Per diem costs were so low, using another road’s investment in rolling stock made sense. The use of other roads’ equipment was a major reason many cars were “specially equipped” in the 60s and 70 so they could be covered under CSD-145 (?). The Southern added the minimal amount of “DF” bars in 40 and 50’ box cars to meet that requirement. We can check but I recall the requirement was something like two 5’ DF sections on each side of the door with no compliment of DF bars in the car. And, the ICC directed that empty cars be sent to other roads/regions. A case that comes to mind was an order for “eastern” railroads to deliver large numbers of box cars to be used for carrying grain from the west and midwest. (ICC “Orders” were not "suggestions”.) Passenger cars also had per diem rates. Not exactly free running but roads had arrangements in place to use each other’s equipment. Ike |
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Dave,
But that PRR H21 hopper isn't carrying metallurgic coal or coke, it is carrying locomotive coal ;) I can think of a couple of scenarios where that might happen. One would include a westbound load of specialty coal/coke to some location further west of the photo, and then a reload, headed in the direction of the home road, with locomotive coal... or a western mine strike or other interruption where coal was obtained from the east for the duration. Regards, Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL |
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Robert G P
Very neat, it must be noted that during the off season stock cars would carry lading that didnt need expressive shelter from the elements. Bricks/Tires/Drums etc. So its possible it was in that service. Couldve also carried purchased livestock west, for breeding or whatever. Just my take on it, no doubt a great shot. -Rob On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 12:38 AM Dave Nelson <Western.Pacific.203@...> wrote:
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Dave Nelson
I know from ICC records that livestock shipments in the far west did include state to state shipments that may have involved foreign road movements. First is the livevstock yards in Salt Lake City, served directly by only the Rio Grande and UP. Yet livestock sold and bought there did originate/terminate on other roads. Second, I know that Texas provided more livestock to California than any other state and while much of that may have originated on TNO/SP and ATSF lines there are more railroads than that in Texas. Last, I know there were livestock shipments from Montana to the stockyards in San Francisco. SP was nowhere near Montana so once again other roads would have originated that traffic.
What I don’t know is whether empty cars from such out-of-state traffic were routed all the way back as empties or whether the circulated locally as free ranging cars.
As for the hoppers, there is plenty of evidence that hoppers with either coke or coking coal travelled much further that ordinary boiler coal. That may account for the NYC hopper you saw.
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2023 2:09 PM To: RailwayBullShippersGroup@groups.io Cc: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io> Subject: [RealSTMFC] Stock cars in foreign territory.
I have been scanning some negatives from James Burke. This photo was taken in El Dorado, Kansas, March 18, 1951. Two things that jumped off the page at me is the New York Central stock car (Westerfield) and the PRR hopper with Carmer uncoupling lever. I have modeled that stock car but never expected to see one in this part of Kansas. It appears to be empty, headed to Wichita. I now have a prototype.
J. Stephen Sandifer
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pennsylvania1954
PRR 741886 is an H21A from series 741001 - 74600. A similar car is shown below. One of mine, a Bowser with a little time and effort added.
-- Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL |
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ed_mines
I had a color photo of a black, DRG&W stock car taken somewhere on Long Island by Henry Maywald. |
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Steve SANDIFER
I have been scanning some negatives from James Burke. This photo was taken in El Dorado, Kansas, March 18, 1951. Two things that jumped off the page at me is the New York Central stock car (Westerfield) and the PRR hopper with Carmer uncoupling lever. I have modeled that stock car but never expected to see one in this part of Kansas. It appears to be empty, headed to Wichita. I now have a prototype.
J. Stephen Sandifer
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