Topics

Accurail 4300: CB&Q 15000-15499 or C&S 13500 series


Robert kirkham
 

First progress shots on kit bashing Accurail 4300 series model into a C&S 13500-13999.  

Stripped most of the paint - that was stubborn!  Used both 99% alcohol and that purple stuff (can’t recall the name).   

Used a new knife blade and single edge razor blade to shave off the ladder and grab irons.  

I started cutting the roof off with a 1.25” circular blade in the drill press, moving the car into the blade with the car body resting on a fitted block that helped keep the car body level.  I made it from a scrap of plywood about 3” x 8”, and glued on a rectangle of balsa wood to fit tightly inside the shell.  Drilled a shallow hole into the plywood base where the bottom of the vertical brake stand protrudes lower than the rest of the shell.   The plywood and balsa block worked OK, but I still had to hold the shell down on it with my hands.  That’s not ideal around moving cutters!  If I was to do it again, I’d clamp a fence of some sort in place rather than guiding the block free-hand.   That would control the federate better and be safer as well.  

I ran into a problem with the blade melting the plastic rather than clearing chips of plastic saw dust.  This accumulated and - after I thought I was nearly through - the blade wandered upward just enough to spoil some roof detail.   I could blame the blade, which was flimsy, but I think the whole method was a bit too much for the set up.   I switched the blade out for an end mill and cleaned things up that way.   I’m planning to add some Yarmouth (Stafford Swain and Dan Kirlin) Hutchins roof panels to replace the original roof.     

Not sure if I have the nerve to remove the horizontal angle iron across the mid-height of the door . . .   Also, not yet sure I will carve the ladder (or the obviously wrong right ladder stile) off the end.   

Rob


Rene LaVoise
 

Robert,

I just finished applying the decals on my build of C&S 13571 last week. Haven’t yet applied flat coat or any weathering yet. 

On the ends I removed the inboard ladder stile except for the middle part spanning the two end sections. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO


Rene LaVoise
 

Sorry, hit Send before attaching photos. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO


Robert kirkham
 

Very nice carving job Rene!  I’m curious to know what you used for that part at the top of the end to support the brake staff?

Rob

On Sep 21, 2020, at 6:51 AM, Rene LaVoise <rlavoise@...> wrote:

Robert,

I just finished applying the decals on my build of C&S 13571 last week. Haven’t yet applied flat coat or any weathering yet. 

On the ends I removed the inboard ladder stile except for the middle part spanning the two end sections. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO


Nelson Moyer
 

Beautiful build. The Accurail car body is very close to the original Speedwitch kit, except the Accurail body has the wood grain detail. The minor differences between the prototype and the Accurail body are in the door stops. The CB&Q removed the horizontal door brace when they added the slogan, and they added the top triangular reinforcement plates for the Z-bars about that time. I build the Sunshine kit as an XM-26, which is virtually identical to the XM-25, and the photo is attached for comparison with the Accurail body. Ted now offers an improved version of the Speedwitch kit, and I have two of them still in the boxes. They include the wood grain detail and other improvements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rene LaVoise
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail 4300: CB&Q 15000-15499 or C&S 13500 series

 

Sorry, hit Send before attaching photos. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Robert,

 

I would suggest that you make a wood block that just fits inside the car body.  It provides support for the car sides when you want to do something like shave off that band across the car door.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 12:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Accurail 4300: CB&Q 15000-15499 or C&S 13500 series

 

First progress shots on kit bashing Accurail 4300 series model into a C&S 13500-13999.  



Stripped most of the paint - that was stubborn!  Used both 99% alcohol and that purple stuff (can’t recall the name).   



Used a new knife blade and single edge razor blade to shave off the ladder and grab irons.  



I started cutting the roof off with a 1.25” circular blade in the drill press, moving the car into the blade with the car body resting on a fitted block that helped keep the car body level.  I made it from a scrap of plywood about 3” x 8”, and glued on a rectangle of balsa wood to fit tightly inside the shell.  Drilled a shallow hole into the plywood base where the bottom of the vertical brake stand protrudes lower than the rest of the shell.   The plywood and balsa block worked OK, but I still had to hold the shell down on it with my hands.  That’s not ideal around moving cutters!  If I was to do it again, I’d clamp a fence of some sort in place rather than guiding the block free-hand.   That would control the federate better and be safer as well.  



I ran into a problem with the blade melting the plastic rather than clearing chips of plastic saw dust.  This accumulated and - after I thought I was nearly through - the blade wandered upward just enough to spoil some roof detail.   I could blame the blade, which was flimsy, but I think the whole method was a bit too much for the set up.   I switched the blade out for an end mill and cleaned things up that way.   I’m planning to add some Yarmouth (Stafford Swain and Dan Kirlin) Hutchins roof panels to replace the original roof.     



Not sure if I have the nerve to remove the horizontal angle iron across the mid-height of the door . . .   Also, not yet sure I will carve the ladder (or the obviously wrong right ladder stile) off the end.   

 

Rob

 


Nelson Moyer
 

Beautiful build. The Accurail car body is very close to the original Speedwitch kit, except the Accurail body has the wood grain detail. The minor differences between the prototype and the Accurail body are in the door stops. The CB&Q removed the horizontal door brace when they added the slogan, and they added the top triangular reinforcement plates for the Z-bars about that time. I build the Sunshine kit as an XM-26, which is virtually identical to the XM-25, and the photo is attached for comparison with the Accurail body. Ted now offers an improved version of the Speedwitch kit, and I have two of them still in the boxes. They include the wood grain detail and other improvements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rene LaVoise
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail 4300: CB&Q 15000-15499 or C&S 13500 series

 

Sorry, hit Send before attaching photos. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO

 


Rene LaVoise
 

Robert,

After carving off the side ladders I used the back of a #11 Xacto blade to score the wood grain where the 'shadow' of the ladder was.  Then went over the area with a scratch brush with metal bristles to help blend.

The top bracket for the brake staff was an extra casting leftover from a Westerfield GN eight truss-rod boxcar.  Before finding it in my parts box I had planned to use a bottom brake bracket from a Tichy brake set.

--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO


Dennis Storzek
 

Really nice work on the C&S car. I see, like the Soo Line, the C&S didn't see any utility in applying a brake step.

I was familiar with at least some of the Q's single sheathed cars from the numerous car bodies that used to be on farms around here, twenty miles from the shops in Aurora, but having incomplete bodies is one thing, real builders drawings are better, and those came via Ken Goslett and Stafford Swain courtesy of the Canadian Railway Historical Society museum in Delson, PQ, so the basis for the Accurail car became a CN car. Back in those days whatever we did was going to be a stand-in for 99 out of a 100 road names anyway, but I wanted good drawings to get at least that 100th car right.

If I could make one suggestion for an additional improvement, carve the back off the lower brake staff support. The prototype is really bent bar stock and the back edges should really be parallel to the outer edge. The part on the model became triangular to add some meat to make it less delicate and simplify tool construction.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc. 


O Fenton Wells
 

Really nicely done Nelson, looks great
Fenton

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:51 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Beautiful build. The Accurail car body is very close to the original Speedwitch kit, except the Accurail body has the wood grain detail. The minor differences between the prototype and the Accurail body are in the door stops. The CB&Q removed the horizontal door brace when they added the slogan, and they added the top triangular reinforcement plates for the Z-bars about that time. I build the Sunshine kit as an XM-26, which is virtually identical to the XM-25, and the photo is attached for comparison with the Accurail body. Ted now offers an improved version of the Speedwitch kit, and I have two of them still in the boxes. They include the wood grain detail and other improvements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rene LaVoise
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail 4300: CB&Q 15000-15499 or C&S 13500 series

 

Sorry, hit Send before attaching photos. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


O Fenton Wells
 

Looking good Rene' nice looking model
Fenton

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 2:43 PM Rene LaVoise <rlavoise@...> wrote:
Robert,

I just finished applying the decals on my build of C&S 13571 last week. Haven’t yet applied flat coat or any weathering yet. 

On the ends I removed the inboard ladder stile except for the middle part spanning the two end sections. 
--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Robert Allan
 

Excellent results. You have a steady hand. Turned out picture perfect.

Bob Allan
Omaha


Ray Carson
 

René,

As somebody that also has the Accurail 4300 body and have plans of turning that into a C&S prototype, this is some very good modeling. This will also be a useful guide for me.

I haven't got far on my model, but I hope to get it nicely as yours.

-Ray


Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for that idea - should have thought of it myself: I think that is one of Greg Martin’s Coco beach tips?

Rob

On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Robert,

 

I would suggest that you make a wood block that just fits inside the car body.  It provides support for the car sides when you want to do something like shave off that band across the car door.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 12:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Accurail 4300: CB&Q 15000-15499 or C&S 13500 series

 

First progress shots on kit bashing Accurail 4300 series model into a C&S 13500-13999.  



Stripped most of the paint - that was stubborn!  Used both 99% alcohol and that purple stuff (can’t recall the name).   



Used a new knife blade and single edge razor blade to shave off the ladder and grab irons.  



I started cutting the roof off with a 1.25” circular blade in the drill press, moving the car into the blade with the car body resting on a fitted block that helped keep the car body level.  I made it from a scrap of plywood about 3” x 8”, and glued on a rectangle of balsa wood to fit tightly inside the shell.  Drilled a shallow hole into the plywood base where the bottom of the vertical brake stand protrudes lower than the rest of the shell.   The plywood and balsa block worked OK, but I still had to hold the shell down on it with my hands.  That’s not ideal around moving cutters!  If I was to do it again, I’d clamp a fence of some sort in place rather than guiding the block free-hand.   That would control the federate better and be safer as well.  



I ran into a problem with the blade melting the plastic rather than clearing chips of plastic saw dust.  This accumulated and - after I thought I was nearly through - the blade wandered upward just enough to spoil some roof detail.   I could blame the blade, which was flimsy, but I think the whole method was a bit too much for the set up.   I switched the blade out for an end mill and cleaned things up that way.   I’m planning to add some Yarmouth (Stafford Swain and Dan Kirlin) Hutchins roof panels to replace the original roof.     



Not sure if I have the nerve to remove the horizontal angle iron across the mid-height of the door . . .   Also, not yet sure I will carve the ladder (or the obviously wrong right ladder stile) off the end.   

 

Rob<image001.jpg><image002.jpg>

 




Robert kirkham
 

Another good tip - thanks Dennis!
Rob

On Sep 21, 2020, at 11:48 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

Really nice work on the C&S car. I see, like the Soo Line, the C&S didn't see any utility in applying a brake step.

I was familiar with at least some of the Q's single sheathed cars from the numerous car bodies that used to be on farms around here, twenty miles from the shops in Aurora, but having incomplete bodies is one thing, real builders drawings are better, and those came via Ken Goslett and Stafford Swain courtesy of the Canadian Railway Historical Society museum in Delson, PQ, so the basis for the Accurail car became a CN car. Back in those days whatever we did was going to be a stand-in for 99 out of a 100 road names anyway, but I wanted good drawings to get at least that 100th car right.

If I could make one suggestion for an additional improvement, carve the back off the lower brake staff support. The prototype is really bent bar stock and the back edges should really be parallel to the outer edge. The part on the model became triangular to add some meat to make it less delicate and simplify tool construction.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc. 


Robert kirkham
 

Nearing the end of the rough work on this kitbash.  

So far, the work has included:
- removing the side and parts of the end ladders, as well as the cast on grab irons.  - shaving off the bulge plates and (marginally) relocating the diagonal straps at the corner side panels.  
- bits of .005 styrene and CA as filler were used to model the various castings and sheet metal plates at the top and bottom of the corner posts.  
- Yarmouth etched ladder rungs - the ones with the long attachment arms - were inserted to form the grab iron ladders.  I bent .008” wire for the remaining straight grabs and used pre-formed Tichy drop grabs on the end sills.  I think they are made of thicker material, but decided not to bend my own.  

I noticed some alignment differences between ladder rung spacing and the lap seam that joins the top and bottom of the 7/8 end panels.   So close inspection with photos won’t be very flattering to this model.  Also, had challenges drilling through the cast on end ladder stiles.   This is one of those places where an etch overlay with etched holes would help guide and hold the drill bit in alignment.  Hint, hint.  Once I have the model primed I’ll figure out what filling and filing is needed to hide blemishes.

I’m waiting for the roof castings to arrive from Yarmouth.  When they are on, the model will be primed and archer rivets add to complete the metal plates etc.  They are also needed on the side sills where cross ties connect.  

So far, I’ve enjoyed this project and am looking forward to completing it.

Rob


O Fenton Wells
 

Nice looking Rob, a very interesting and very ambitious project
Fenton

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:27 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
Nearing the end of the rough work on this kitbash.  

So far, the work has included:
- removing the side and parts of the end ladders, as well as the cast on grab irons.  - shaving off the bulge plates and (marginally) relocating the diagonal straps at the corner side panels.  
- bits of .005 styrene and CA as filler were used to model the various castings and sheet metal plates at the top and bottom of the corner posts.  
- Yarmouth etched ladder rungs - the ones with the long attachment arms - were inserted to form the grab iron ladders.  I bent .008” wire for the remaining straight grabs and used pre-formed Tichy drop grabs on the end sills.  I think they are made of thicker material, but decided not to bend my own.  

I noticed some alignment differences between ladder rung spacing and the lap seam that joins the top and bottom of the 7/8 end panels.   So close inspection with photos won’t be very flattering to this model.  Also, had challenges drilling through the cast on end ladder stiles.   This is one of those places where an etch overlay with etched holes would help guide and hold the drill bit in alignment.  Hint, hint.  Once I have the model primed I’ll figure out what filling and filing is needed to hide blemishes.

I’m waiting for the roof castings to arrive from Yarmouth.  When they are on, the model will be primed and archer rivets add to complete the metal plates etc.  They are also needed on the side sills where cross ties connect.  

So far, I’ve enjoyed this project and am looking forward to completing it.

Rob



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...