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Accurail kit 4498

Clark Propst
 

I have an Accurail kit #4498. It a single sheathed car and has 7/8 ends and a steel corrugated door. I've asked before what I can model with it and only was given a vague possibility for CN. I found a set of Tichy USRA style ends. I believe the ends would be easier to replace than the door? Did another one besides the Pennsy put steel corrugated doors on their USRA box cars? Would like to do something with this kit!
Thanks!!
CW Propst 

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"I have an Accurail kit #4498. It a single sheathed car and has 7/8 ends and a steel corrugated door. I've asked before what I can model with it and only was given a vague possibility for CN. I found a set of Tichy USRA style ends. I believe the ends would be easier to replace than the door? Did another one besides the Pennsy put steel corrugated doors on their USRA box cars? Would like to do something with this kit!"

If you take this course of action, you'll be doing a bunch of work to create a foobie.  The 5/5/5 Murphy corrugated ends plus the z-section truss members of the Accurail model will NOT accurately model anything, much less any USRA SS boxcar, which had pressed steel truss members.

A quick look at RMJ and MRG articles turned up a photo of DMIR 3328 (pg 11) at this link: 


Ben Hom




Bill Welch
 

I may be wrong but I do not think there was an exact prototype with the combination of details this molding has: Hutchins roof; Z-braces; steel ends; steel doors; and eight evenly spaced panels.

Bill Welch

Dave Parker
 

At the risk of piling on: Clark, I assume that you have a 4598 (there is no 4500 series).  I agree with everything that Ben and  Bill have said.  Plus, the Accurail cars have a fish-belly center sill, also wrong for the USRA SS cars.

The only one of these models that I know to be prototypical is the 4100 series which, with a little work, makes a decent model of some CN cars built ca. 1918-27 (see attached).  The Hendrickson article in the Feb 1993 RMJ provides the details, along with some alternate roads for which the model can work, perhaps as a "close enough " stand-in.

If I had a 4500-series kit, I'd shed it at the next swap meet.  The Tichy USRA kit is about the same $$, and vastly superior.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Clark Propst
 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:29 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
A quick look at RMJ and MRG articles turned up a photo of DMIR 3328 (pg 11) at this link: 
Ben Hom
Thank you Ben and everyone. I 'think' Accurail makes a DMIR model? I'll make the choice of building it as DMIR or just cutting off the roof to use another time.
CW Propst

Dave Parker
 

I just purchased a 41xx kit for the expressed purpose of harvesting the roof.  It's the best feature of these cars (IMO).
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst asked:
"I 'think' Accurail makes a DMIR model?"

Kit number 4506:


"I'll make the choice of building it as DMIR or just cutting off the roof to use another time."

Harvesting the roof is always a legit use for these kits.


Ben Hom

Clark Propst
 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
Clark, I assume that you have a 4598 (there is no 4500 series). 
Checked the box label again 4498. I'll mail it to anyone who wants it for shipping  ;  ))
CW Propst

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
At the risk of piling on: Clark, I assume that you have a 4598 (there is no 4500 series).
These kits are now 29 years old, being released in 1991, IIRC. They were originally released as the 4000 series (wood ends and doors) 4200 series (7/8 steel ends and wood doors) and the 4400 series (steel ends and doors, At some point over the intervening years, we upgraded all the lettering art work. To avoid confusion between the old and new kits, they were all given new stock numbers, ratcheting each series up 100.
The only one of these models that I know to be prototypical is the 4100 series which, with a little work, makes a decent model of some CN cars built ca. 1918-27 (see attached).
The 4000/4100 series is truly the CN car. At the time I wanted to do a CB&Q car, but in those years builder's drawings weren't as easy to come by as they are now. I had worked with the late Stafford Swain and Ken Goslett to obtain drawings of the 1916 Canadian Government Railways car I did as a resin kit (Safford wanted a later car with the Hutchins roof but they couldn't find drawings) and they never stopped looking, so by the time I was working on the Accurail tooling, they had drawings for the more common CN car of the 1920's.

The 4200/4300 series car with the 7/8 corrugated ends is also a CN prototype, but more obscure. These started life as low roof door and a half automobile cars, but the CN quickly found they were too small; auto cars universally grew to 10'-0" IH during the twenties, so the CN rebuilt them as 6' door boxcars, retaining the corrugated ends. We gave some thought to doing the door and a half version, but it's really an atypical car with its low roof and there were not a lot of potential road names. Don Valentine of New England Rail Service settled the matter by bringing out his conversion kit.

This whole project was done with 3M's Tartan Tool process; sintered steel cavities formed over positive masters, very much like resin kit masters, and I had a Youngstown door pattern that was adaptable. Staff, Ken, and I discussed the possibility that the CN had replaced the doors on some cars, but we never did find any photos. However, in 1991 there weren't a lot of options for easy assembly models of pre-war prototypes, and this third version could be a stand-in for a lot of things, although those DM&IR cars may be the closest match. The idea was the third version would be cheap and easy to do. If I would have known what it was actually going to cost, I probably would not have done it.

Dennis Storzek

Ken Adams
 

Thank you Dennis for a full explanation of the origins. 

At some time in the last 29 years I acquired one lettered for SP. Still unbuilt but I was impressed by the tight but still discernible siding planks.

Versions are still being flogged around as special run convention cars for NMRA regional conventions. The latest, I understand, is as a PE car for the 2020 Pacific Southwest Region meet (which is now cancelled.) So I guess there is still life in those dies. 
--
Ken Adams

Tim O'Connor
 


looks a lot like this one (attached)


On 3/24/2020 3:29 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Clark Propst wrote:
"I have an Accurail kit #4498. It a single sheathed car and has 7/8 ends and a steel corrugated door. I've asked before what I can model with it and only was given a vague possibility for CN. I found a set of Tichy USRA style ends. I believe the ends would be easier to replace than the door? Did another one besides the Pennsy put steel corrugated doors on their USRA box cars? Would like to do something with this kit!"

If you take this course of action, you'll be doing a bunch of work to create a foobie.  The 5/5/5 Murphy corrugated ends plus the z-section truss members of the Accurail model will NOT accurately model anything, much less any USRA SS boxcar, which had pressed steel truss members.

A quick look at RMJ and MRG articles turned up a photo of DMIR 3328 (pg 11) at this link: 


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Jon Miller
 

On 3/26/2020 10:25 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

looks a lot like this one (attached)

    Looks like the decal  film is really heavy!:-)

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Clark Propst
 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:23 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
looks a lot like this one (attached)
Jeff Otto has a model in that paint scheme on his layout. Must be an older Accurail release? The current one appears to has white stenciling? Now that I no longer have the car from the photo it looks like a fun build. Especially the lettering on plates.
CW Propst

lsittler
 

Hi Dennis- I read this post with interest. I’m a new guy on this site so please bear with me. It turns out that I have a number of the 4299 cars, which I bought many years ago. Can you tell me what CN car number series this model is intended to represent?  Also, if you know of any prototype information that’s available I would be grateful. Same goes for decals. Secondly, I was fortunate enough to buy one of your CN 1917 boxcar resin kits. The resin castings are truly wonderful but since this is an older kit the instructions are somewhat inscrutable to me. Since I model 1961 I am interested in the later version of this car. I realize I will need to utilize an AB brake system. No diagram is provided. However, the instructions state that later “cast steel AAR style trucks” were used- do you know what trucks are intended by this language? Also, it is stated that “a length of old rail (later stated to be code 40) was fitted to the center of each end to add a fifth post”.  I am not clear what that means. I take it that these cars were numbered in the 500,000 series on CN. The decals look somewhat beaten up in my kit.  Any new ones available? Thanks for your help. Les
 

From: Dennis Storzek
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail kit 4498
 
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
At the risk of piling on: Clark, I assume that you have a 4598 (there is no 4500 series).
These kits are now 29 years old, being released in 1991, IIRC. They were originally released as the 4000 series (wood ends and doors) 4200 series (7/8 steel ends and wood doors) and the 4400 series (steel ends and doors, At some point over the intervening years, we upgraded all the lettering art work. To avoid confusion between the old and new kits, they were all given new stock numbers, ratcheting each series up 100.
The only one of these models that I know to be prototypical is the 4100 series which, with a little work, makes a decent model of some CN cars built ca. 1918-27 (see attached).
The 4000/4100 series is truly the CN car. At the time I wanted to do a CB&Q car, but in those years builder's drawings weren't as easy to come by as they are now. I had worked with the late Stafford Swain and Ken Goslett to obtain drawings of the 1916 Canadian Government Railways car I did as a resin kit (Safford wanted a later car with the Hutchins roof but they couldn't find drawings) and they never stopped looking, so by the time I was working on the Accurail tooling, they had drawings for the more common CN car of the 1920's.

The 4200/4300 series car with the 7/8 corrugated ends is also a CN prototype, but more obscure. These started life as low roof door and a half automobile cars, but the CN quickly found they were too small; auto cars universally grew to 10'-0" IH during the twenties, so the CN rebuilt them as 6' door boxcars, retaining the corrugated ends. We gave some thought to doing the door and a half version, but it's really an atypical car with its low roof and there were not a lot of potential road names. Don Valentine of New England Rail Service settled the matter by bringing out his conversion kit.

This whole project was done with 3M's Tartan Tool process; sintered steel cavities formed over positive masters, very much like resin kit masters, and I had a Youngstown door pattern that was adaptable. Staff, Ken, and I discussed the possibility that the CN had replaced the doors on some cars, but we never did find any photos. However, in 1991 there weren't a lot of options for easy assembly models of pre-war prototypes, and this third version could be a stand-in for a lot of things, although those DM&IR cars may be the closest match. The idea was the third version would be cheap and easy to do. If I would have known what it was actually going to cost, I probably would not have done it.

Dennis Storzek

Virus-free. www.avg.com

lsittler
 



So I have some questions about these Accurail cars. I have a number of the 4299 cars I bought years ago (painted oxide red with data only). Dennis Storzek states that these cars are based on a CN car series- does anyone know the actual car series this model is intended to represent? I'm thinking the CN IO group may have prototype info on the cars and I'll check with them. But don't know where to start.  If others have some info it would be interesting to learn more, including whether appropriate decals are available. And now it seems that the DT&I may have had similar cars. Unfortunately I don't remember the door and a half version discussion with Don Valentine and the NERS detail kit. Maybe somebody can point me to the emails about that and for what railroad(s) that NERS kit was used. Frankly I thought these cars were pretty much unusable for my railroad but now I wonder based on Dennis's comments if that is not true. Thanks. Les

lsittler
 

Hi Dennis- So it turns out I have a number of the 4299 kits purchased years ago. Am I correct that these models are based on the CN 511353-513052 series car?. Also, what is the Don Valentine conversion kit you mention? Les

lsittler
 

Oops..made a mistake. Correct CN series is 514068-514499. Les

lsittler
 

Wow this is what happens when you can’t get one message through and then all 4 do LOL
 

From: lsittler
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail kit 4498
 
Oops..made a mistake. Correct CN series is 514068-514499. Les

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 03:03 PM, lsittler wrote:
Can you tell me what CN car number series this model is intended to represent?  Also, if you know of any prototype information that’s available I would be grateful. Same goes for decals. Secondly, I was fortunate enough to buy one of your CN 1917 boxcar resin kits. The resin castings are truly wonderful but since this is an older kit the instructions are somewhat inscrutable to me. Since I model 1961 I am interested in the later version of this car. I realize I will need to utilize an AB brake system. No diagram is provided. However, the instructions state that later “cast steel AAR style trucks” were used- do you know what trucks are intended by this language? Also, it is stated that “a length of old rail (later stated to be code 40) was fitted to the center of each end to add a fifth post”.  I am not clear what that means. I take it that these cars were numbered in the 500,000 series on CN. The decals look somewhat beaten up in my kit.  Any new ones available?

Wow, where to start? Decals... you do realize that I sold the resin kit line, what, 33 years ago, right? And, I'm not a CNR modeler, so I have no idea what is available in CNR decals today. Give the decals a try. They were printed by Rail Graphics (now out of business) who always did quality work.

I'll leave the AB brake questions to someone else, as I never researched it.

A really good, but somewhat confusing (because the CNR roster is so large) resource is Ian Cranstone's web site at http://www.nakina.net/cn/cn.html  I don't have a lot of data at my finger tips, but going strictly by the built dates, by memory:

The 1916-1917 built Canadian Government Railway cars became CNR 500000-500492 in 1923, and you should be able to follow them through the roster from there. Ian doesn't include the inside width dimension, but note these cars have a distinctive 3265 cu.ft. capacity because they are 9'-0" wide. These were BIG cars for the day.

The Accurail 4000/4100 series kits are based on the CNR cars built in 1923, '24, and I believe 1927, all 3098 cu.ft. capacity because IIRC they are 8'-9" IW. That would put them in number series 500500-503499 when built

The Accurail 4200/4300 kits model the 9' IH automobile cars built in 1923 as CNR 580000-580999, also 3098 cu.ft, after they were rebuilt with 6' doors in 1933 and renumbered 464000-464999, but they also may have been the ex Grand Trunk Railway cars built in 1921 and renumbered  in the series just below; I really don't recall which group had the steel ends.

I welcome any additions or corrections to this.

Dennis Storzek

O Fenton Wells
 

Try Black Cat decals he’s has excellent north of the border decal selections
Fenton Wells

On Mar 31, 2020, at 1:15 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

Rail