Topics

ADHESIVE PROBLEM

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


I am probably stretching the limits of this group but do not caboose come under freight cars?  To push things further I am completing the conversion of a Harriman Southern Pacific coach to a caboose.

I have encountered a problem with the American Limited diaphrams.  I have used their gray diaphrams in the past with great success.  First this project I have black units.  The plastic parts seem th be a very slick plastic that is resistant to Testors liquid plastic cement.  Has anyone has a similar experience and what was the solution?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hope to see many of you in Lysle.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill McClure <virginianbill@...>
Date: 10/17/19 9:09 AM (GMT-10:00)


Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [PARDIEW001@...]

_._,_._,_

mel perry
 

try cypox, works on engineering plastics,
not cheap, follow instructions to the
letter
mel perry

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:09 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

I am probably stretching the limits of this group but do not caboose come under freight cars?  To push things further I am completing the conversion of a Harriman Southern Pacific coach to a caboose.

I have encountered a problem with the American Limited diaphrams.  I have used their gray diaphrams in the past with great success.  First this project I have black units.  The plastic parts seem th be a very slick plastic that is resistant to Testors liquid plastic cement.  Has anyone has a similar experience and what was the solution?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hope to see many of you in Lysle.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill McClure <virginianbill@...>
Date: 10/17/19 9:09 AM (GMT-10:00)


Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [PARDIEW001@...]

Jack Burgess
 

Bill…

 

Cypox would most likely work (I have some) but I would try canopy glue first.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 2:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ADHESIVE PROBLEM

 

 

I am probably stretching the limits of this group but do not caboose come under freight cars?  To push things further I am completing the conversion of a Harriman Southern Pacific coach to a caboose.

 

I have encountered a problem with the American Limited diaphrams.  I have used their gray diaphrams in the past with great success.  First this project I have black units.  The plastic parts seem th be a very slick plastic that is resistant to Testors liquid plastic cement.  Has anyone has a similar experience and what was the solution?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Hope to see many of you in Lysle.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Bill McClure <virginianbill@...>

Date: 10/17/19 9:09 AM (GMT-10:00)


Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [PARDIEW001@...]

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 02:08 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
The plastic parts seem the be a very slick plastic that is resistant to Testors liquid plastic cement. 
I've done extensive modification to some American Limited diaphragms some years ago (don't recall if they were gray or black) and was able to use solvent cement, but I suspect they are ABS and the acrylic component is pretty resistant to Testors cement. I very likely used Tenax, which is methylene chloride, which is the preferred solvent for acrylic fabrication and also happens to work with styrene. Tenax is no longer sold, but we just had a long discussion on one of these lists about alternatives.

Dennis Storzek

Tony Thompson
 

I would try canopy glue.
Tony Thompson 


On Oct 17, 2019, at 10:09 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:



I am probably stretching the limits of this group but do not caboose come under freight cars?  To push things further I am completing the conversion of a Harriman Southern Pacific coach to a caboose.

I have encountered a problem with the American Limited diaphrams.  I have used their gray diaphrams in the past with great success.  First this project I have black units.  The plastic parts seem th be a very slick plastic that is resistant to Testors liquid plastic cement.  Has anyone has a similar experience and what was the solution?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hope to see many of you in Lysle.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill McClure <virginianbill@...>
Date: 10/17/19 9:09 AM (GMT-10:00)


Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [PARDIEW001@...]

Tim O'Connor
 

If Plastruct's ABS liquid cement does not work, I'd simply use contact cement. Any brand
(Barge, et al) You can dilute the solvent based contact cements with straight MEK - it becomes
less stringy and you can dab it on with disposable microbrushes. Let it dry on both pieces
and voila, instant permanent bond.

On 10/17/2019 5:08 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

I am probably stretching the limits of this group but do not caboose come under freight cars?  To push things further I am completing the conversion of a Harriman Southern Pacific coach to a caboose.

I have encountered a problem with the American Limited diaphrams.  I have used their gray diaphrams in the past with great success.  First this project I have black units.  The plastic parts seem th be a very slick plastic that is resistant to Testors liquid plastic cement.  Has anyone has a similar experience and what was the solution?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hope to see many of you in Lysle.

Bill Pardie
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

John Sykes III
 

If you think the plastic is ABS, methylene chloride should work fine.  If it is a plastic more like delrin, I would suggest the primer-glue combination of LocTite 770 primer and 401 cyanoacrylic cement.  The primer gives the delrin a chemical level "tooth" that allows the CA to grab, so it only needs to go on the delrin part.  I've used it to glue broken delrin trucks and similar parts together.

--John

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't understand this - I've never had much luck with Tenax (methylene chloride) with ABS parts
especially the old Plastruct stuff. ABS is NOT an acrylic material.

On 10/18/2019 6:11 PM, John Sykes III via Groups.Io wrote:
If you think the plastic is ABS, methylene chloride should work fine.  If it is a plastic more like delrin, I would suggest the primer-glue combination of LocTite 770 primer and 401 cyanoacrylic cement.  The primer gives the delrin a chemical level "tooth" that allows the CA to grab, so it only needs to go on the delrin part.  I've used it to glue broken delrin trucks and similar parts together.

--John
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Donald B. Valentine
 

    I'd have to agree Tim, I've never found a use for Tenax and after several tries over the years
with different bottles of it put it in the trash as useless/.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 04:32 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
ABS is NOT an acrylic material.
Errr, Tim, ABS is Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Here's a brief explanation from Wikipedia:

ABS is a terpolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene. The proportions can vary from 15 to 35% acrylonitrile, 5 to 30% butadiene and 40 to 60% styrene. The result is a long chain of polybutadiene criss-crossed with shorter chains of poly(styrene-co-acrylonitrile). The nitrile groups from neighboring chains, being polar, attract each other and bind the chains together, making ABS stronger than pure polystyrene. The styrene gives the plastic a shiny, impervious surface. The polybutadiene, a rubbery substance, provides toughness even at low temperatures.

Back when I was building patterns for resin kits I wanted to build on a base solid enough to resist any warpage of the laminated patterns, so I chose 1/2" thick cast acrylic (Plexiglass) because it was readily available, easily cut with a table saw, and had a coefficient of thermal expansion similar to the styrene the pattern would be built of. Unfortunately I found it difficult to cement small bits of styrene to the acrylic with the techniques I was comfortable with, so I laminated a sheet of .020 styrene to the acrylic base to give me a stable styrene surface to build on. Tenax was my cement of choice to do the lamination, and it never failed.

I will admit that Tenax has such a high evaporation rate that it may be difficult to work with, but it will dissolve acrylic, styrene, or ABS.

Dennis Storzek

Tony Thompson
 

Plexiglas is polymethyl methacrylate.
Tony Thompson 


On Oct 19, 2019, at 8:30 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 04:32 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
ABS is NOT an acrylic material.
Errr, Tim, ABS is Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Here's a brief explanation from Wikipedia:

ABS is a terpolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene. The proportions can vary from 15 to 35% acrylonitrile, 5 to 30% butadiene and 40 to 60% styrene. The result is a long chain of polybutadiene criss-crossed with shorter chains of poly(styrene-co-acrylonitrile). The nitrile groups from neighboring chains, being polar, attract each other and bind the chains together, making ABS stronger than pure polystyrene. The styrene gives the plastic a shiny, impervious surface. The polybutadiene, a rubbery substance, provides toughness even at low temperatures.

Back when I was building patterns for resin kits I wanted to build on a base solid enough to resist any warpage of the laminated patterns, so I chose 1/2" thick cast acrylic (Plexiglass) because it was readily available, easily cut with a table saw, and had a coefficient of thermal expansion similar to the styrene the pattern would be built of. Unfortunately I found it difficult to cement small bits of styrene to the acrylic with the techniques I was comfortable with, so I laminated a sheet of .020 styrene to the acrylic base to give me a stable styrene surface to build on. Tenax was my cement of choice to do the lamination, and it never failed.

I will admit that Tenax has such a high evaporation rate that it may be difficult to work with, but it will dissolve acrylic, styrene, or ABS.

Dennis Storzek