Topics

ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

Lester Breuer
 

CB&T Shops produced the Limited Edition Car I purchased in the photo in 2013.  Ends and roof match the prototype photo in the 1946 Car Builder’s Cyc; however, side panels on model are six vs five on the prototype.  Doors also not correct.  My question not having any reference data on the Santa Fe.  Were any cars produced with the number of panels the model has?
Any info. on prototype  cars appreciated.  Thank You for your time and effort to respond in advance.
Lester Breuer

Andy Carlson
 

Hi Lester-

On the Steam Era Freight Car Web Site (different from this io group) Ed Hawkins has data for almost all post war AAR 40' box cars and has data for these cars, but I can say that the Santa Fe was one of three RRs which had 40' 10'6" IH 6' single door 12 riveted panel boxcars. Santa Fe, Denver & Rio Grande and the Great Northern. The Rio Grande had straight lower side sills (think "Cookie cutter"). The Santa Fe Bx-48? box cars had the one year only Youngstown "upside down" 6/6/5 improved Youngstown steel door, built in 1946 which this model has. For a 1946 car, 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends and rectangular Stanray roof are correct. Your car is remarkably close to being correct, though I can not say if the ATSF straight line map would be correct for this particular class.
Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Monday, December 16, 2019, 3:06:42 PM PST, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


CB&T Shops produced the Limited Edition Car I purchased in the photo in 2013.  Ends and roof match the prototype photo in the 1946 Car Builder’s Cyc; however, side panels on model are six vs five on the prototype.  Doors also not correct.  My question not having any reference data on the Santa Fe.  Were any cars produced with the number of panels the model has?
Any info. on prototype  cars appreciated.  Thank You for your time and effort to respond in advance.
Lester Breuer

Brian Carlson
 

When I was creating my freight car roster for my 1957 layout Richard gave me some data on these cars. I have pasted that below. Note I have not yet looked into what reworkings are needed. 
Bx-48 class (750 cars built in '46; AAR box cars with 12 panel sides, can be modeled with a reworked C&BT kit; for some reason, many of these cars lasted into the '60s with their original P/L).
ATSF 274068 & 274099, Grand Canyon Line
ATSF 274279, Scout
ATSF 274326, 274329, & 274396, El Capitan
ATSF 274534, Super Chief
ATSF 274625, Chief.
Brian J. Carlson 

On Dec 16, 2019, at 6:06 PM, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

CB&T Shops produced the Limited Edition Car I purchased in the photo in 2013.  Ends and roof match the prototype photo in the 1946 Car Builder’s Cyc; however, side panels on model are six vs five on the prototype.  Doors also not correct.  My question not having any reference data on the Santa Fe.  Were any cars produced with the number of panels the model has?
Any info. on prototype  cars appreciated.  Thank You for your time and effort to respond in advance.
Lester Breuer
<23411487-D3D6-410A-A66C-1936E9F267B3.jpeg>
<9D798C6A-FA63-4DCB-B118-083EA6023E90.jpeg>

Todd Sullivan
 

Just as a footnote, the prototype photo is of a class Bx-44 Class boxcar, not a Class Bx-48 which is what Brian and Andy have referenced.  The CB&T Shops model is lettered as a Bx-48, so their comments pertain to that class, not the Bx-44.

Todd Sullivan.

mopacfirst
 

The Bx-44 had five panels per side, making it not right for the CB&T model.  The Branchline car is much closer.

Interestingly enough, although this class came with those intermediate Youngstown doors with the wide panels (and I went out of my way to equip my Branchline cars with those Southwest Scale doors), most or all of this class had the doors replaced in later years with a newer Youngstown door much closer to the door in the Branchline kit.

Ron Merrick

Bob Chaparro
 

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

It is interesting that this particular car uses the small herald 

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 12/16/19 3:13 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

It should be noted that Pierre Oliver produced a super kit for this car.  I don't know if he still has them in stock


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 12/16/19 3:13 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Ooops!  Pierre's kit was a Bx44.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Date: 12/16/19 4:49 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

It should be noted that Pierre Oliver produced a super kit for this car.  I don't know if he still has them in stock


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 12/16/19 3:13 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Pierre Oliver
 

As a matter of fact I do have few still 

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


On Dec 16, 2019, at 9:50 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


It should be noted that Pierre Oliver produced a super kit for this car.  I don't know if he still has them in stock


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 12/16/19 3:13 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Pierre Oliver
 

Actually

  • 105.1 Bx-48, 50, 51. Square panel roof, Apex Tri-lock R/B
  • 105.2 Bx-53, 60, 62. Diag panel roof, Apex Tri-lock R/B
  • 105.3 Bx-63. Diag panel roof, USG R/B
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 12/16/19 10:52 p.m., WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

Ooops!  Pierre's kit was a Bx44.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Date: 12/16/19 4:49 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

It should be noted that Pierre Oliver produced a super kit for this car.  I don't know if he still has them in stock


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 12/16/19 3:13 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

John Barry
 

Bill,

The three foot Herald was standard, but a two foot version was used where a standard one would not fit between the riveted seams of steel cars or the bracing on single sheathed cars.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019, 3:16:50 AM GMT+1, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


It is interesting that this particular car uses the small herald 

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 12/16/19 3:13 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Tim O'Connor
 


The model's prototype
Bx-48 had 12 panel riveted sides, but the panels closest
to the ends were WIDER than the other panels. So, no one has done a Bx-48 in plastic
in any scale. Shave off the rivets, and replace with Archers.

C&BT Shops produced 28 physically different permutations of the postwar 10'6" AAR
box cars - including 12 panel cars with same-sized panels. Many of the permutations
have no prototype at all. But for 12 panel 10'6" cars I think it's the only source in
HO scale. (Intermountain offers a 10'0" 12 panel body.)

Tim O'Connor


On 12/16/2019 6:06 PM, Lester Breuer wrote:
CB&T Shops produced the Limited Edition Car I purchased in the photo in 2013.  Ends and roof match the prototype photo in the 1946 Car Builder’s Cyc; however, side panels on model are six vs five on the prototype.  Doors also not correct.  My question not having any reference data on the Santa Fe.  Were any cars produced with the number of panels the model has?
Any info. on prototype  cars appreciated.  Thank You for your time and effort to respond in advance.
Lester Breuer

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tim O'Connor
 


I think the straight line map is correct for 1946. Ship & Travel came a little later?

Tim O'Connor


On 12/16/2019 6:44 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:
Hi Lester-

On the Steam Era Freight Car Web Site (different from this io group) Ed Hawkins has data for almost all post war AAR 40' box cars and has data for these cars, but I can say that the Santa Fe was one of three RRs which had 40' 10'6" IH 6' single door 12 riveted panel boxcars. Santa Fe, Denver & Rio Grande and the Great Northern. The Rio Grande had straight lower side sills (think "Cookie cutter"). The Santa Fe Bx-48? box cars had the one year only Youngstown "upside down" 6/6/5 improved Youngstown steel door, built in 1946 which this model has. For a 1946 car, 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends and rectangular Stanray roof are correct. Your car is remarkably close to being correct, though I can not say if the ATSF straight line map would be correct for this particular class.
Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Monday, December 16, 2019, 3:06:42 PM PST, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


CB&T Shops produced the Limited Edition Car I purchased in the photo in 2013.  Ends and roof match the prototype photo in the 1946 Car Builder’s Cyc; however, side panels on model are six vs five on the prototype.  Doors also not correct.  My question not having any reference data on the Santa Fe.  Were any cars produced with the number of panels the model has?
Any info. on prototype  cars appreciated.  Thank You for your time and effort to respond in advance.
Lester Breuer


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tim O'Connor
 


and the other side


On 12/16/2019 8:13 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
I have one Bx-48 photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Lester Breuer
 

The CB&T Shops Model has on the other side has the slogan in the attached photo.
Lester Breuer

Lester Breuer
 

It attached this time.
Lester Breuer

Lester Breuer
 

Question on ATSF Bx -48 on the running board.  Ed Hawkins has U.S. Gypsum (expanded metal)  and Pierre in his kit 105.1 states Apex Tri-Lok.  Are both correct?  And, I do not know what the U.S. Gypsum expanded metal looks like. Does the term “expanded metal” give it a different shape than the open diamond pattern formed by stamping and stretching 12-guage steel which I believe is the same as the Plano Model Products #192 US Gypsum -Diamond pattern ( photo attached)?
Lester Breuer

mopacfirst
 

The Santa Fe boxcar book (Boxcars of the Santa Fe 1869-1953) sheds no light on the Bx-48 roofwalk manufacturer.  But I have on occasion used a plastic roofwalk made by Intermountain, which is in the 10' IH 6-panel boxcar and possibly in the PS-1.  This is intended to represent an expanded-metal (early Gypsum) roofwalk, and it actually has some texture to it.  It's thicker than an etched metal roofwalk, but it's beveled on the underside to make the thickness less obvious.

Ron Merrick

Bernd Schroeder
 

another choice for Gypsum roofwalks is available from Kadee since earlier this year...so far, i saw these roofwalks (in 4 colors, only 40', also for Morton) only at one vendor on ebay that might be associated somehow w Kadee , but he was willing to sell to Germany and they are definitely existing...I bought enough to correct the RTR cars from Kadee in my collection where necessary.
It is a detail that is easy to see, so worth the expenses (the removed Apex roofwalks will be used on other cars anyway) and effort.

Bernd Schroeder
Adelsdorf, Germany
--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.
Am 18.12.19, 02:54 schrieb mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>:

The Santa Fe boxcar book (Boxcars of the Santa Fe 1869-1953) sheds no light on the Bx-48 roofwalk manufacturer.  But I have on occasion used a plastic roofwalk made by Intermountain, which is in the 10' IH 6-panel boxcar and possibly in the PS-1.  This is intended to represent an expanded-metal (early Gypsum) roofwalk, and it actually has some texture to it.  It's thicker than an etched metal roofwalk, but it's beveled on the underside to make the thickness less obvious.

Ron Merrick