Topics

ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

Nathan Obermeyer
 

Prototype Junction is looking to produce ATSF BX-11, BX-12, and BX-13 models to include rebuilds in the late 1950s. The rebuilds would possibly fit my modeling time frame of 1979 and I'd like to ask the ATSF experts what the road numbers were for these cars after the 1959 rebuild? Were they put in a new class of cars? I recently purchased the ATSF Color Guide book, but it didn't have photos of the 1959 rebuilds. Can someone provide the history of the rebuilds?

Thanks,

Nate

mopacfirst
 

Nate:

I checked the Occhiello "Listing of cars by class" and it shows that 1500 or so of the Bx-11 were rebuilt in 1959/60, and the rebuilds became 16700-16899 and 19000-20550.  I remember a few of these cars,  They were fairly typical rebuilds with body fit over the narrower original frame, but the treatment of the ends was interesting.  Many, or all, got an 'outie' corrugation added above the otherwise 'innie' original Dreadnaught end.

Remind me off-line and I might be able to scan a couple.

Ron Merrick

James SANDIFER
 

Attached is the Westerfield history on the cars.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 6:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

 

Prototype Junction is looking to produce ATSF BX-11, BX-12, and BX-13 models to include rebuilds in the late 1950s. The rebuilds would possibly fit my modeling time frame of 1979 and I'd like to ask the ATSF experts what the road numbers were for these cars after the 1959 rebuild? Were they put in a new class of cars? I recently purchased the ATSF Color Guide book, but it didn't have photos of the 1959 rebuilds. Can someone provide the history of the rebuilds?

Thanks,

Nate

John Drake
 

Nate,  

According to John Dobyne’s Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953, published by the Santa Fe Historical and Modeling Society back in 2001, the Bx-13s, which were not modified with roof extensions, were the first to be rebuilt in steel.  The program ran from 1950-52. The cars were rebuilt with riveted side-panel assemblies and extensions for the ends, which raised the inside height of the cars to 10 foot 6 inches. They were also given new AB brake systems with crosswise-mounted reservoirs, 6/5/5 Youngstown light­weight doors, and either Blaw-Knox or Transco metal running boards. The cars retained their Ajax handbrakes and Dalman I-level trucks. The rebuilt 985 cars retained their Bx-13 classification, but were renumbered into the 32500-33484 number series. These cars remained in service until 1973.

The cars that Prototype Junction are planning produce are the Bx-11 rebuilds.  This rebuild program began in 1956 and continued through 1962. The majority of the class were rebuilt very similar to the Bx-13 class and assigned numbers in the 19000-20438 number series. This series retained their Bx-11 class designation. The cars numbered between 19000 and 19895 were modified from 10 foot 6 inch high Bx-11s in the 210000-210960 series. The cars numbered 19896-20438 were rebuilt from 10 foot high or unmodified Bx-11s in the 124000-125999 series.  The last of the rebuilt Bx-11 cars remained in service until 1976.

The primary differences between the bodies of the Bx-13 rebuilds and the Bx-11 rebuilds were their roofs and ends. Dobyne states that after rebuilding, all the Bx-11 class had rectangular-panel steel roofs which extended to the ends of the car. The extension panel on the ends formed the peak of the end and included a Dreadnaught corrugation which matched a portion of the original recessed Dreadnaught ends. They were also given sill steps with two rungs at each corner of the car.  These rebuilds retained their Dalman 2-level trucks, but the were modified with ASF spring packages. Most cars in this series were equipped with Youngstown doors, but some of the higher numbered cars received Superior 5-panel doors.

Just a comment on these rebuilt cars’ paint scheme.  the Santa Fe adopted its “Ship and Travel” paint scheme with the large herald in 1959, in the middle of this rebuilding program. According to Dobyne, there was a break in production between December 1958 and August 1959, so the first car produced in August, car number 19848, was probably the first car painted in the new scheme.

Hope this helps!

John

Tim O'Connor
 

We're not supposed to discuss freight cars after 1960. Are you referring to the raised roof rebuilds?
I've only seen one photo of a raised roof Bx-12 with an ACI tracking label. All cars in revenue service
1968 to about 1978 were supposed to have them.

On 1/10/2020 7:54 PM, Nathan Obermeyer via Groups.Io wrote:

Prototype Junction is looking to produce ATSF BX-11, BX-12, and BX-13 models to include rebuilds in the late 1950s. The rebuilds would possibly fit my modeling time frame of 1979 and I'd like to ask the ATSF experts what the road numbers were for these cars after the 1959 rebuild? Were they put in a new class of cars? I recently purchased the ATSF Color Guide book, but it didn't have photos of the 1959 rebuilds. Can someone provide the history of the rebuilds?

Thanks,

Nate
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

James SANDIFER
 

The thing that confuses me about your description is the term “rebuilds,” becauses Santa Fe rebuilt them in several ways at various times. Just look at the website: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tall-pratt-truss-single-sheathed-box-and-auto-cars#/  Yes, some were rebuilt in the mid 50s with steel sides, but the first rebuilds were in 1941 which were truss side cars with side extensions. The above website indicates that all forms are being proposed. If that is true, then there are several very different cars to be produced. I am content to wait for more formal and more detailed information. In the mean time, I have a enough of the Westerfield kits, and the mid-50 steel rebuilds are too late for my modeling era.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Drake
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 5:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF BX-11,12, and13 rebuild question

 

Nate,  

According to John Dobyne’s Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953, published by the Santa Fe Historical and Modeling Society back in 2001, the Bx-13s, which were not modified with roof extensions, were the first to be rebuilt in steel.  The program ran from 1950-52. The cars were rebuilt with riveted side-panel assemblies and extensions for the ends, which raised the inside height of the cars to 10 foot 6 inches. They were also given new AB brake systems with crosswise-mounted reservoirs, 6/5/5 Youngstown light­weight doors, and either Blaw-Knox or Transco metal running boards. The cars retained their Ajax handbrakes and Dalman I-level trucks. The rebuilt 985 cars retained their Bx-13 classification, but were renumbered into the 32500-33484 number series. These cars remained in service until 1973.

The cars that Prototype Junction are planning produce are the Bx-11 rebuilds.  This rebuild program began in 1956 and continued through 1962. The majority of the class were rebuilt very similar to the Bx-13 class and assigned numbers in the 19000-20438 number series. This series retained their Bx-11 class designation. The cars numbered between 19000 and 19895 were modified from 10 foot 6 inch high Bx-11s in the 210000-210960 series. The cars numbered 19896-20438 were rebuilt from 10 foot high or unmodified Bx-11s in the 124000-125999 series.  The last of the rebuilt Bx-11 cars remained in service until 1976.

The primary differences between the bodies of the Bx-13 rebuilds and the Bx-11 rebuilds were their roofs and ends. Dobyne states that after rebuilding, all the Bx-11 class had rectangular-panel steel roofs which extended to the ends of the car. The extension panel on the ends formed the peak of the end and included a Dreadnaught corrugation which matched a portion of the original recessed Dreadnaught ends. They were also given sill steps with two rungs at each corner of the car.  These rebuilds retained their Dalman 2-level trucks, but the were modified with ASF spring packages. Most cars in this series were equipped with Youngstown doors, but some of the higher numbered cars received Superior 5-panel doors.

Just a comment on these rebuilt cars’ paint scheme.  the Santa Fe adopted its “Ship and Travel” paint scheme with the large herald in 1959, in the middle of this rebuilding program. According to Dobyne, there was a break in production between December 1958 and August 1959, so the first car produced in August, car number 19848, was probably the first car painted in the new scheme

Hope this helps!

John

Nathan Obermeyer
 

John,

The information is very helpful and unfortunately the cars were retired before my modeling era. It’s interesting how many times the cars were rebuilt.

Thanks,
Nate

Thomas
 

If you look in look in Santa Fe Freight in Color volume one by Preist and Chenoweth you will find photos of both the BX-11 and BX-12 class cars with raised roofs into the 70's.
 Tom Thompson

Randy Hammill
 

Hi, James -

Somehow I missed this message earlier. To clarify:

For the ATSF cars in this project we are doing:
  • Bx-11, -12, and -13 in their original configuration
  • Bx-11 and -12 rebuilt (or modified might be a better term) 1941-2 with 8" roof extension
  • Bx-11 and -12 modified in 1942-3 with 12" roof extension
  • Bx-11 and -13 classes rebuilt with steel sides, the Bx-13s started in 1950, the Bx-11s in 1956.

Available with era specific details and painting and lettering for the life of the cars. 

In a future era, the Bx-12 classes rebuilt with steel sides '63-'64 appear to all have been two variations, one with a "plug" door as Bx-85 cars, and others with Transco siding, in class Bx-86. These cars are not included in this project...yet. We have to raise our initial funding before we consider adding anything else to the project. But these cars, along with some other variations of the PM/C&O cars are under consideration should we raise enough to cover the additional tooling.

The rest of the cars currently in scope for this project:
Box Cars
  • RI 141000-142999 series Pratt truss single sheathed box cars
  • PM 89350-90349 series Pratt truss box cars (converted from auto cars)
  • C&O 289350-290349 series Pratt truss box cars (converted from auto cars)

Auto Cars
  • CGW 80000-80978 series Pratt truss auto cars
  • L&N 46000-46399 series Pratt truss auto cars
  • PM 89350-90349 series tall Pratt truss auto cars
  • C&O 289450-290349 series tall Pratt truss auto cars

Remember that we have a special 20% off deal for members of this list available here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/2565226/x/22782899?secret_perk_token=00cefdf9

Join our community of Backers and let's make some models!

Randy

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com