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ATSF flat class

Jim Eager

#198377

Although listed as D&RGW, I’m positive this is an ATSF mow flat set up to carry the ATSF Burro crane in the distance.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw-X185-j06.jpg

My question is what was the original ATSF class for the flat? I suspect that it was an Ft-O but I’m not sure of it.

Jim Eager

Steve SANDIFER

#198378

The FT-O and FT-P were identical. This certainly looks like one with the 14 stack pockets, drop brake staff, three visible angles on the fishbelly underframe. The Santa Fe Open top book shows FT-O as WT-O for a crawler in MOW service. So your assessment seems appropriate.

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Eager
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 6:55 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Although listed as D&RGW, I’m positive this is an ATSF mow flat set up to carry the ATSF Burro crane in the distance.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw-X185-j06.jpg

My question is what was the original ATSF class for the flat? I suspect that it was an Ft-O but I’m not sure of it.

Jim Eager

#198379

Thanks Steve.

charles slater

#198401

Steve, it is an Ft-I or Ft-J.

Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 5:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Although listed as D&RGW, I’m positive this is an ATSF mow flat set up to carry the ATSF Burro crane in the distance.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw-X185-j06.jpg

My question is what was the original ATSF class for the flat? I suspect that it was an Ft-O but I’m not sure of it.

Jim Eager

charles slater

#198402

The car is an Ft-I or Ft-J

Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Eager <jeager@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 4:55 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Although listed as D&RGW, I’m positive this is an ATSF mow flat set up to carry the ATSF Burro crane in the distance.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw-X185-j06.jpg

My question is what was the original ATSF class for the flat? I suspect that it was an Ft-O but I’m not sure of it.

Jim Eager

Steve SANDIFER

#198406

Ah, thank you.

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of charles slater
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 1:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Steve, it is an Ft-I or Ft-J.

Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook

Although listed as D&RGW, I’m positive this is an ATSF mow flat set up to carry the ATSF Burro crane in the distance.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw-X185-j06.jpg

My question is what was the original ATSF class for the flat? I suspect that it was an Ft-O but I’m not sure of it.

Jim Eager

Jim Barnes

#198457

I believe this is a Ft-L class as pictured in Richard Hendrickson’s “SantaFe Open-Top Cars”. You are right this is a classic Santa Fe Flat.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

Show quoted text

On Thursday, January 19, 2023, 4:55 PM, Jim Eager <jeager@...> wrote:

Although listed as D&RGW, I’m positive this is an ATSF mow flat set up to carry the ATSF Burro crane in the distance.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw-X185-j06.jpg

My question is what was the original ATSF class for the flat? I suspect that it was an Ft-O but I’m not sure of it.

Jim Eager

Jim Eager

#198489

OK, Ft-L it is then, Thanks all.
Jim

Jim Eager

#198536

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

Steve SANDIFER

#198538

I would trust Charlie Slater’s reply.

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Eager
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 12:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

charles slater

#198539

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Eager <jeager@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 10:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

Tim O'Connor

#198556

The car in Jim's picture has 14 stake pockets ! It is either an Ft-P or similar car with 14 pockets.

On 1/24/2023 1:54 PM, charles slater wrote:

Show quoted text

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Eager <jeager@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 10:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

Attachments:

Ft-I 190080 (Wt-I) Barstow, Ca.jpg

Ft-I 190080 (Wt-I) Blt 9-10 Barstow, Ca.jpg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Rich C

#198558

Tim, 14 stake pockets is not necessarily the spotting feature! Some of the same series of flats have only 12 stake pockets. This is mentioned and evidenced by photos in the Santa Fe HS book. Sorry don't have it handy.

Rich Christie

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 05:26:27 PM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The car in Jim's picture has 14 stake pockets ! It is either an Ft-P or similar car with 14 pockets.

On 1/24/2023 1:54 PM, charles slater wrote:

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

Attachments:

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Jim Eager

#198562
Edited

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

With all due respect, the car that I asked about does not match car 190080. It has fewer stake pockets (12 vs 14), the shape of the stake pockets themselves is different, and the drop sills lack the three vertical flanges.
On the other hand, the photo Tim posted of Ft-P 90806 does match the car I asked about. I also found this car:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf190618ags.jpg

Jim Eager

Jim Eager

#198563

Also, the drop sill of the car in question, and the FtP, is clearly deeper than on Wt-I 190080, as it should be since the Ft-P was a longer car than the Ft-I/J.

Jim Eager

Tim O'Connor

#198569

That's cool. My Dad photographed this one (no idea of the class designation)
ATSF 190198 in 1978 in Barstow. It has 13 stake pockets !

On 1/24/2023 7:59 PM, Jim Eager wrote:

Show quoted text

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

With all due respect, the car that I asked about does not match car 90080. It has fewer stake pockets (12 vs 14), the shape of the stake pockets themselves is different, and the drop sills lack the three vertical flanges.
On the other hand, the photo of Ft-P 90806 does match the car I asked about. It also found this car:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf190618ags.jpg

Jim Eager

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

charles slater

#198579

The car in this photo is either a Ft-L or Ft-N easily identified by the two patch plates on the car side where Santa Fe stretched it. Sunshine Models made a kit for that car as well as the Ft-I and J and the

Ft-O and Ft-P. Counting the stake pockets will not identify all classes because some were changed over their service life.

Charlie Slater MRFM2

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2023 6:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

That's cool. My Dad photographed this one (no idea of the class designation)
ATSF 190198 in 1978 in Barstow. It has 13 stake pockets !

On 1/24/2023 7:59 PM, Jim Eager wrote:

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

With all due respect, the car that I asked about does not match car 90080. It has fewer stake pockets (12 vs 14), the shape of the stake pockets themselves is different, and the drop sills lack the three vertical flanges.
On the other hand, the photo of Ft-P 90806 does match the car I asked about. It also found this car:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf190618ags.jpg

Jim Eager

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

charles slater

#198580

Flat car 190618 is an Ft-O or Ft-P class car.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

That's cool. My Dad photographed this one (no idea of the class designation)
ATSF 190198 in 1978 in Barstow. It has 13 stake pockets !

On 1/24/2023 7:59 PM, Jim Eager wrote:

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

With all due respect, the car that I asked about does not match car 90080. It has fewer stake pockets (12 vs 14), the shape of the stake pockets themselves is different, and the drop sills lack the three vertical flanges.
On the other hand, the photo of Ft-P 90806 does match the car I asked about. It also found this car:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf190618ags.jpg

Jim Eager

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

charles slater

#198581

The first flat car in M ow W paint with no car number is an Ft-O or Ft-P, you can tell by the ribs on the side sill. Sunshine Models made a kit for that one.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 3:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

The car in Jim's picture has 14 stake pockets ! It is either an Ft-P or similar car with 14 pockets.

On 1/24/2023 1:54 PM, charles slater wrote:

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Eager <jeager@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 10:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

Attachments:

Ft-I 190080 (Wt-I) Barstow, Ca.jpg
Ft-I 190080 (Wt-I) Blt 9-10 Barstow, Ca.jpg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

charles slater

#198582

The two cars on this EMAIL are in Barstow Yard are either Ft-I of Ft-J. That is the car I measured to make the patterns for Sunshine.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

Sent from Outlook

Show quoted text

The car in Jim's picture has 14 stake pockets ! It is either an Ft-P or similar car with 14 pockets.

On 1/24/2023 1:54 PM, charles slater wrote:

The flat car is either a Ft-I Built in 1910 or Ft-J Built in 1913 44 foot car.

Here are two photos of an Ft-I 190080 Built 9-1910 in Barstow Yard in 1993 and 1994.

Charlie Slater MSFM2

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Eager <jeager@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 10:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF flat class

Tim 'O sent me a photo of an Ft-L converted to TOFC service and it is definitely not a good match.
Guess I'll need to track down photos of the other suggested classes to make sure for myself.

Attachments:

Ft-I 190080 (Wt-I) Barstow, Ca.jpg
Ft-I 190080 (Wt-I) Blt 9-10 Barstow, Ca.jpg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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