This one has two NYC coaches:

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-053048.htm

Yet another with an empty NYC baggage:

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-010542.htm

There are many more consists like this. Usually the passenger cars are located just behind the engine (sometimes within the first few cars) or just ahead of the caboose.

While passenger cars in freight trains definitely weren't the norm, it also seems that it wasn't too unusual at least on this part of the Central system.

-Phil Lee

On 11/16/2022 6:37 PM CST Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

 

 

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 03:06 PM, nyc3001 . wrote:

However, my curiosity was piqued by the "NYC" reefers.

Phil,
I didn't see your note til I'd posted my reply to Bruce's question. Good catch on the NYC express reefers! I missed that. On second look, the low numbered NRC and PFE cars should also be express reefers. NWX 15126 is a freight reefer.  Still, otherwise empty reefers are getting a revenue backhaul. Most will likely get their next perishable load somewhere around the cans' destination.

Jack

Looking more closely at the consist info, it looks like J-1c Hudson #5262 is on the point, which was very unusual for a freight train (since the Central's primary freight engines in this time period were Mikados and Mohawks).

However, my curiosity was piqued by the "NYC" reefers. Shouldn't the reporting marks be MDT? But the numbers fit within the NYC express reefer series 5740-6074 or the milk reefer series 6400-6660 (more proof that milk cars were used in express service), so I'm going to assume that these reefers were actually 50' NYC express reefers and that this is a mail and express train, not a freight train. GN 2050, an express reefer in the GN 2000 series, seems to corroborate this.

But the first car, B&O 385336, is a normal M-53 wagontop XM not equipped with steam and signal lines. The second car, DL&W 4829, is also a normal double-sheathed boxcar. Looking closely at the lading, it doesn't look like there were any perishables. So maybe these boxcars were pressed into express/merchandise service temporarily to ship dry loads, like the empty cans inside all of the reefers.

In sum, it looks like we have a J-1c Hudson pulling a M&E train (with no steam heat or air signaling system possible because of the XMs) originating at Cleveland's East 26th St. express house with some boxcars carrying dry merchandise and express, express reefers and milk cars with empty cans (one of which is apparently going to Alaska, as Tim noted), one baggage car of mail, a deadheading ATSF baggage, a rider coach, and a normal caboose.

Just imagine a 50' NYC express reefer with deep side sills traveling on a carfloat to Juneau, Alaska, where it will presumably be picked up by the Alaska Railroad.

So if my assumptions aren't wrong, we have one mystery left. As Bruce said, why the caboose?

On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:51 PM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io <soolinehistory@...> wrote:

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 08:27 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

More likely the car was unloaded in Seattle or Vancouver, with cans put on a ship for delivery to Juneau.

Doug, I'm inclined to agree with Jack Mullin, who pointed out that there is also a Juneau, Wis. in the same area as several of the other destinations foe empty cans.

Dennis Storzek

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 08:27 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

More likely the car was unloaded in Seattle or Vancouver, with cans put on a ship for delivery to Juneau.

Doug, I'm inclined to agree with Jack Mullin, who pointed out that there is also a Juneau, Wis. in the same area as several of the other destinations foe empty cans.

Dennis Storzek

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Holy smokes! A NYC reefer loaded with 5 tons of empty cans from Cleveland headed to Juneau, Alaska !!
Presumably to be returned with a load of canned salmon. :-)

If I created a waybill like that at the club nobody would believe it !

Could be, but more likely it's going to Juneau, Wis. The other can destinations match towns in vegetable and fruit growing areas of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

Jack