Baggage cars in freight trains
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Could it have been a MIXED train? In which case, a Railway Express load could be forwarded in a baggage car. Amtrak handled Heinz products in express box cars out of Toledo OH in the 1990's -- several carloads at a time. On 11/16/2022 12:49 PM, sherman4863 via groups.io wrote: I have seen a photo of a Pennsy baggage car on a freight train on the Minnesota Western in the 1950's. It was hauling canned sweet corn for eastern markets. It had two baggage doors per side and not sure if it was an insulated car? Sam Sherman --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Paul Koehler
You are all trying to overthink this situation. A Baggage car in a passenger train goes B/O in route and must be set out. The Railroad will arrange to transfer the cargo if any to the quickest means possible to get to destination. Most all railroads had had highway equipped carman crews that could be sent anywhere on the division to repair the car including changing out complete wheel sets and after repairs were made car would be picked up by a local freight and headed back to ware ever car was needed. They did not stop a scheduled passenger train to pick up an empty car.
Paul C. Koehler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of sherman4863 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 9:50 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Baggage cars in freight trains
I have seen a photo of a Pennsy baggage car on a freight train on the Minnesota Western in the 1950's. It was hauling canned sweet corn for eastern markets. It had two baggage doors per side and not sure if it was an insulated car? Sam Sherman |
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sherman4863
I have seen a photo of a Pennsy baggage car on a freight train on the Minnesota Western in the 1950's. It was hauling canned sweet corn for eastern markets. It had two baggage doors per side and not sure if it was an insulated car? Sam Sherman
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Larry Goolsby
When I was watching ACL Western Division freights back in the day, baggage-express cars would be in the consists from time to time. I've "assumed" they were hauling express that didn't make it onto the only passenger run left on that route in the 1960s, the remnant of the Dixie Flyer from Jacksonville to Chicago (via connections), or by mid-decade, Jacksonville only to Atlanta. Or they could have been deadheading after repairs at the Waycross Ga. shops. I also saw ACL refrigerator express cars fairly often, and while they were still on the roster, box express cars.
Larry Goolsby |
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Robert G P
Ive noticed the practice in high priority freights on CN, Lackawanna, Reading, ATSF, SP and I believe UP. I want to say at least one of the northwestern roads and Prr but cannot recall. Mostly in archive footage is where it is spotted, with the whole train passing by. Other than that I have seen photographic evidence in at least once in Classic Trains and various books. I only know that they were in a priority freight due to a caption or narration. But once or twice might have just been an educated guess from given factors. The fact that its been spotted more than once in archive footage from various roads leads me to believe that it might have been a little more common than expected, as these clips showed the whole train (or 3/4) where a photo just shows a small fraction (usually). -Robert On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 7:41 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
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Nelson Moyer
Branchlines used combines as an alternative to cabooses after regular passenger traffic ceased. Combines could be various combinations of baggage, express, RPO, and coach. Rebuild troop kitchens, aka baggage cars, were used in freight trains to ship calendars from a printer in Washington, IA. Troop kitchens were equipped with air, signal, and steam lines for inclusion in passenger car consists, but later in life, many steam and signal lines were removed, and those cars ran in freight trains. Burlington Bulletin No. 30 contains photographic evidence.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 5:15 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Baggage cars in freight trains
Robert,
I would find it highly unlikely and would be interested in a more concrete reference to images that show baggage cars in freight trains. The only real example I know of the routine use of head-end cars was the prepositioning of express refrigerator cars by a local freight for loading and pick up by a passenger train. The example I have occurred with mushroom traffic from the Kennett Square PA area on the PRR's Octoraro branch. However, it seems common enough that the PRR's R50B express reefers were equipped with freight car safety appliances around 1940.
Regards, Bruce Smith Auburn, AL From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Drew Bunn <drew.r.bunn@...>
Those could have been in Express Mail service if it was a high priority freight.
Others will know more.. ________________
On Tue., Nov. 15, 2022, 16:39 Robert G P, <bobgp5109@...> wrote:
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Bill Parks
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 06:48 PM, ROGER HINMAN wrote:
Supposedly it was a cost savings measureI would assume protecting the schedule of passenger trains was also a consideration. If empties were moved in passenger trains, then the train might lose time having the empties removed from the consist. -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida |
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sometimes it was a coach On 11/15/2022 5:38 PM, Robert G P wrote:
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Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Hudson Leighton
I have seen pictures of SP freights in the mid-1970s with baggage cars.
-Hudson |
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ROGER HINMAN
I can’t remember how long ago it was, but i raised a similar question and someone responded that the CB&Q and implied other roads routinely put empty baggage cars in freights to route them to where they were needed. Supposedly it was a cost savings measure.
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Roger Hinman
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ted schnepf
Hello, In most instances baggage cars in freight trains are empties returning to a location where they are needed, probably mostl;y east bound trains. On the Milwaukee road there was live fish loading into baggage cars, with water tanks, along the Mississippi River and in Spirit Lake, Iowa. These fish cars were for the kosher trade on the east coast. On the Milwaukee they started their trip in a freight train. Possibly they were transferred to a passenger train in Savanna, Ill. I do not know if they continued in freight trains when on the eastern roads. There are many photos showing them in freight trains. Ted Schnepf Elgin, Illinois 847-697-5353 On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 4:39 PM Robert G P <bobgp5109@...> wrote:
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Robert,
I would find it highly unlikely and would be interested in a more concrete reference to images that show baggage cars in freight trains. The only real example I know of the routine use of head-end cars was the prepositioning of express refrigerator cars by
a local freight for loading and pick up by a passenger train. The example I have occurred with mushroom traffic from the Kennett Square PA area on the PRR's Octoraro branch. However, it seems common enough that the PRR's R50B express reefers were equipped
with freight car safety appliances around 1940.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Drew Bunn <drew.r.bunn@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 4:46 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Baggage cars in freight trains
Those could have been in Express Mail service if it was a high priority freight.
On Tue., Nov. 15, 2022, 16:39 Robert G P, <bobgp5109@...> wrote:
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Dennis Storzek
Likely cars going to scrap, or going to the repair shop to be turned into work cars. Most 'baggage' cars earned their keep hauling express for Railway Express Agency, Inc. I have heard of at least one instance where a railroad (Soo Line) received permission to drop a passenger train, and did so the very next week, even though the express contract still had several months to run. In that case the scheduled express car (a baggage car complete with express messenger) was carried by the local freight until the REA contract ended.
Dennis Storzek |
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Drew Bunn
Those could have been in Express Mail service if it was a high priority freight. On Tue., Nov. 15, 2022, 16:39 Robert G P, <bobgp5109@...> wrote:
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Robert G P
Hello all, I have noticed from various video footage and pictures that it was not completely uncommon for baggage cars to be seen in a freight passing by. I am not referring to MOW but to a regular passenger baggage/express car. (Not express boxcars or reefers). Does anyone have anything to say about this or could explain why this happened? Were these cars most likely being used for a freight operation (under certain circumstances)? And if the cars were empty why mightve they not been deadheaded in a passenger train? Thanks lots, R |
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