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Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars
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Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger <durrecj@...> wrote:
Cool. About the twelfth page in is a good photo of the Van Dyke castings... but the side bearing extensions aren't shaped the same as those in the drawings in the 1906 CBD. It occurs to me that any copyrights have run out on this 103 year old book... It's late, but tomorrow I'll scan the drawings and post them to the files section, and then everyone will have them, and Rob can direct Blackstone there to see if they have any interest. Dennis
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Dennis Storzek wrote:
It occurs to me that any copyrights have run out on this 103 year old book...Not only that, but if copyrighted it was under the rather primitive law prior to 1912, so DEFINITELY no worries. <g> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Jon Miller <atsf@...>
It should be obvious that this is not the original center sill; it should also be obvious that if Blackstone is tooling this frame, there is not much hope for standard gauging the model.<I would think that the sales would be much better if the model could also be used for standard gauge. They could even sell it that way by changing the trucks. Maybe on the one they would need two frames. Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
Done. Drawings from the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary are in the Files area here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/UTL%20Tankcar%20Drawings/ And the two builders photos published in the same source will be added to the album with the later photos of the 6,000 gal. X car here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2142098359/pic/list Dennis
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Robert kirkham
So far I have not had a response to my e-mail. I'm heading off to work this morning. If no one else sends the links to the drawings and photos to Blackstone today, I'll pass them on this evening and see if that awakens an interest. If one of you gets to it before me, please drop me a line so I don't duplicate your effort.
Rob Kirkham
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steve l <stevelucas3@...>
Dennis--
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Thanks for posting these drawings. They print nicely on legal-size papaer using landscape format. Steve Lucas.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
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steve l <stevelucas3@...>
Here's a photo of a Type V, UTLX 55136, on the Central Vermont Ry. rip tracks in St Albans, VT circa 1943.
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http://www.images.technomuses.ca/index.php?en/stories/central_vermont/b/page/1/popupimage/CN005406 Obviously, the photographer didn't appreciate how useful this photo might be to modellers of STMFC's 66 years of so later. If that time machine is ever invented, someone should thank him---and maybe tell him to take a few more photos of that Type V? ;) Steve Lucas.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, mlauber4@... wrote:
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Charlie Vlk
Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market.
My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version. Anyone looked into how many paint schemes/roadnames the prototype would be good for?? Charlie Vlk
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Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:
One, Union Tank Line. I'm going to disagree with Charlie here. Model railroad manufacturers tend to establish themselves in a niche, then continue to market to that niche. Doing ONE kit that is aimed at a different market risks having a "one trick pony" that no one knows about, so doesn't sell. Don't be surprised if the suggestion to do a standard gauge version is met with stony silence. If they do it, what will they follow it with? I don't think a standard gauge version of Rio Grande 3000 series boxcar is going to sell very well. Case in point, how many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details, less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50. How many have ever seen one? I haven't. And apparently Jon Cagle of SC&F makes a resin kit for this car, although I don't see them on his web site. No the best I'm hoping for is that the narrow gauge version is well detailed, with robust walkways and steps that won't fall off, and nice paint and lettering. I'm perfectly capable of changing the trucks myself, and perfectly willing to use the stock number from a narrow gauge car especially if they do some cars in the pre 1947 numbers, since they were taken at random from the standard gauge series. I'd also give building a new center sill for a class X car a shot, starting with a frameless model, since the wide frame added to the narrow gauge conversions looks like more trouble than it's worth. If anyone goes this route, before casting covetous eyes on other tankcar kit underframes, be aware that the class X cars predate the general adoption of 12" cannel for center sills, and the prototype used 15" channels. This is the car MDC tried to model years ago, but somehow managed to double the depth of this already hevier than normal sill. Dennis
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Charlie Vlk
Dennis is correct.... and I agree with him about manufacturers "sticking to their knitting"..... I am a great believer that a company should figure out what they are good at and not try to be everthing to everyone.
I was not aware of the Precision Scale plastic kit for either car, in spite of my exposure to Des Plaines Hobbies. I might have had my N Scale googles on if there were such kits in the store; however, I think I would have seen them if they had been in stock in the last few years. Precision Scale is somewhat under-represented in the retail shops? I am not sure what the size of the Narrow Gauge market is / will be. The current lack of readily available track components (although I hear this is going to be rectified soon) certainly rules out any explosive growth to parallel the On30 one or even G Gauge in this RTR heavy world. I know this list is not much interested in RTR but my original premise still holds... a standard gauge RTR version of the car would outsell the HOn3 one given the same quality level, etc.. even if Blackstone isn't the one to do it. Charlie Vlk
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Dennis S. wrote:
I'd also give building a new center sill for a class X car a shot, starting with a frameless model, since the wide frame added to the narrow gauge conversions looks like more trouble than it's worth. If anyone goes this route, before casting covetous eyes on other tankcar kit underframes, be aware that the class X cars predate the general adoption of 12" cannel for center sills, and the prototype used 15" channels. This is the car MDC tried to model years ago, but somehow managed to double the depth of this already hevier than normal sill.Yup. I always assumed MDC made the frame so darn big so they could weight the car thereby. There was certainly no molding need for so big a part. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
I know this list is not much interested in RTR but my original premise still holds... a standard gauge RTR version of the car would outsell the HOn3 one given the same quality level, etc.. even if Blackstone isn't the one to do it. - Charlie VlkHow about blackstone partners with someone else who is in primarily in HO to help defray the cost of tooling and spread sales over both HOn3 and HO. Perhaps Intermountain, similar to what they do with Tichy kits. By the way I have one of the PSC kit for these, and also Richard's fine article to build it with. Maybe that should be next on my to build list. Ned Carey
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Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
Dennis S. wrote
----- Case in point, how many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details, less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50. How many have ever seen one? I haven't. ------ I have had HO versions of both the frameless and narrow frame versions since the mid '90s. And like too many of my purchases, neither one is finished but both have been started. I even have Wabash Custom decals for the frameless car. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon www.sunshinekits.com
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Jack Burgess
Jim admitted:
I have had HO versions of both the frameless and narrow frameThat makes me feel better! I bought six of the frameless PSC kits after Richard's article came out, got them started, but got hung up on modifying the Eastern Car Works (?) trucks by replacing the single coil springs with a pair of springs. I finally finished them last year and all six are in service on the layout. (A majority of tank cars on the prototype YVRR were 6,000 gallon UTLX Van Dykes.) Jack Burgess www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
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David Sieber
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
Unfortunately, those are UTL class V frameless tank cars, when what we could really use in standard guage are the slightly more modern class X frame tank cars. On Precision Scale's website, only those two frameless tank cars in HO (and equivalent frameless HOn3 kits) are shown as currently available - but the "representative photo" for all is a class X tank car with steel frame. In a Classic Freight Car photo book, there's a 1969 photo of UTLX 57801 last shopped by Union Tank Car Co in 11-55; I also have a 1969 Jim Sands photo of UTLX 58041 and 58008. These are in-service photos in normal freight interchange, all with AB brakes and AAR cast steel trucks. There's also your photo of UTLX 11204 lettered for Procor Limited, with AB brakes and archbar trucks, reweighed 10-41. Clearly, some class X cars had extraordinary longevity in the Union Tank Car fleet. I strongly agree with Charlie Vlk, that "Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market. My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version." As you note, Blackstone is a successful HOn3 niche firm that might be hesitant to do a one-time-only standard guage car; however, as has been suggested, perhaps in partnership with an established HO standard guage freight car manufacturer? Respectfully, Dave Sieber Reno NV
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Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
GUYZ,peach creek models makes several 5' wheelbase trucks if that helps. Fred Freitas Fred, Specifically what are you refering too? A google search didn't come up with anything for peach creek models. I am familiar with Peach Creek Shops in Laurel Md. However they were not familiar with any 5' wheelbase trucks. Thanks, Ned
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Dennis Storzek
Just a heads-up...
Paging through the October 2009 issue of RMC, in an article about the California State Belt Railroad ideler cars, several of which were built from tankcar frames, is a builder's photo of the frame, trucks, and tank saddles for a ULT class X tankcar. This is the frame that will be needed to convert the narrow gauge "narrow frame" (why do the call them that?" tnakcar to standard gauge. It also does a good job of showing the visible parts of the Cardwell draft gear (the springs) that UTL was fond of using. Dennis
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