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Brass freight car noise


Steve SANDIFER
 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?


Jon Miller
 

On 8/26/2020 9:56 AM, James SANDIFER wrote:
I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise

    Tough one.  If any are boxcars with doors that open you might try stuffing them with memory foam (removable if doesn't work) or similar.  Other types of cars, I'm at a loss!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


vapeurchapelon
 

I converted most to Tahoe and Kato trucks (and a few Bowser Crown for a couple PRR cars) which made them quieter and better running. But remember that freight trains definitely were not quiet during the steam era, plus "noisy" model freight cars makes it easier to tolerate a noisy locomotive mechanism... ;-)
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 19:14 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
On 8/26/2020 9:56 AM, James SANDIFER wrote:
I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise

    Tough one.  If any are boxcars with doors that open you might try stuffing them with memory foam (removable if doesn't work) or similar.  Other types of cars, I'm at a loss!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tony Thompson
 

Johannes wrote:

I converted most to Tahoe and Kato trucks (and a few Bowser Crown for a couple PRR cars) which made them quieter and better running. But remember that freight trains definitely were not quiet during the steam era, plus "noisy" model freight cars makes it easier to tolerate a noisy locomotive mechanism... ;-)

      Certainly older brass freight cars typically had awful trucks. Like most brass of that day, it was aimed at a collector market, not operators. Trucks were almost required to be replaced if you wanted to run the car. More recent brass is quite different, often with decent trucks. I doubt any of my older brass cars have original trucks (I save  them in the box for some future collector who might end up with them.)

Tony Thompson




vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Tony,
 
this is certainly true. I remember some late run Challenger Imports, OMI and W&R cars running fine out of the box. But unfortunately these trucks didn't have Code-88 wheels, the brake shoes were not really fine in gauge, and the truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. So I converted them. The only cars where I use the original trucks are the latest run W&R cars which have Tahoe trucks right from the factory (Yes, true!) and the dozen W&R D&RGW coal gondolas - these, too run great with some careful adjustments and a tiny drop of oil.
(And OF COURSE I too keep all the originals for an imaginary collector after me...!)
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 19:58 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
I converted most to Tahoe and Kato trucks (and a few Bowser Crown for a couple PRR cars) which made them quieter and better running. But remember that freight trains definitely were not quiet during the steam era, plus "noisy" model freight cars makes it easier to tolerate a noisy locomotive mechanism... ;-)
      Certainly older brass freight cars typically had awful trucks. Like most brass of that day, it was aimed at a collector market, not operators. Trucks were almost required to be replaced if you wanted to run the car. More recent brass is quite different, often with decent trucks. I doubt any of my older brass cars have original trucks (I save  them in the box for some future collector who might end up with them.)
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Tony Thompson
 

Johannes wrote:

But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 

   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.

Tony Thompson




vapeurchapelon
 

Know that trick. Probably will do it on the coal gondolas. Nonetheless many thanks for the reminder.
For more "ordinary" trucks the list goes on:
- finding new .88 wheel sets
- grinding away the brake shoes
- making the bolsters accept Kadee brake pads (if possible at all! Some side frames are clipped to the bolster, or screwed on horizontally.)
 
Before I would even think about doing this to maybe 50 brass cars with at least 30 different (model manufacturer) trucks I purchase new ones which need NO work and I am happy ;-)
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 21:17 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 
   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


erieblt2
 

Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths. Get the weight up, or as already suggested more practically, smoother trucks and or sound isolating foam inside. I personally like to play train Sound dvds to ‘set the mood’! W. Smith


On Aug 26, 2020, at 12:51 PM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:


Know that trick. Probably will do it on the coal gondolas. Nonetheless many thanks for the reminder.
For more "ordinary" trucks the list goes on:
- finding new .88 wheel sets
- grinding away the brake shoes
- making the bolsters accept Kadee brake pads (if possible at all! Some side frames are clipped to the bolster, or screwed on horizontally.)
 
Before I would even think about doing this to maybe 50 brass cars with at least 30 different (model manufacturer) trucks I purchase new ones which need NO work and I am happy ;-)
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 21:17 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 
   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:
Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.
Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Schuyler Larrabee
 

As might a stick of styrene carefully wedged between the sides, perhaps glued in place.  CAREFULLY as you don’t want to inadvertently deform the car sides by pushing them outward so make the stick just long enough to stay in place but without using a lot of force.  By changing the length of the vibrating side, you interfere with whatever resonance is causing the noise.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:

Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.

Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Richard Townsend
 

Here's something a little off the wall related to Schuyler's suggestion. Years ago I used to participate in a theater group that used portable stage risers. To reduce the resonance of the risers we put in internal baffles. The important thing was to create spaces having a dimensional ratio of 1:1.62. It usually meant there were some odd-sized spaces left over, but the 1:1.62 ratio worked. I know this ratio is important in art and architecture (it's often referred to as the golden ratio). So if the internal width of the brass car is one inch, you could put in baffles 1.62 inches from each end.  In between might be a space big enough for a third 1:1.62 baffle and some minor left-over space.

Disclaimer: I have no brass house cars and have never tried this.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

As might a stick of styrene carefully wedged between the sides, perhaps glued in place.  CAREFULLY as you don’t want to inadvertently deform the car sides by pushing them outward so make the stick just long enough to stay in place but without using a lot of force.  By changing the length of the vibrating side, you interfere with whatever resonance is causing the noise.
 
Schuyler
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
 
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:
Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.
Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek