Topics

Brass tank car


Jon Miller
 

    I have a nice looking brass tank car.  It's 2 dome and etched on the bottom of the frame is AJIN,   10-1988.  It is painted gloss black and that's the way I bought it.  It has trucks with .066 (+/-) wheel sets which is interesting.  Bought years ago (probably eBay) and wonder if anyone knows of available decals (for my time era) that would work.  Also how accurate is this car?  I think there is 1 in the CBC's that match.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


vapeurchapelon
 

Jello Jon,
 
I suppose it's this one?:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-3131-HO-BRASS-ACF-8-000-Gal-Double-Dome-Tank-Car-Unpainted-EX-Box/392901430442?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
I, too have one of these. Don't know much about accuracy, but two ladders on one side is somewhat odd, although about a year ago there has been linked a photo of a similar car here in this group. Would have to look where I have that Email.
The model is supposed to be an 8000 gal car, but the tank unfortunately is somewhat larger, I would guess about 9000 when I compare with a true 8000 and a 10000 gal car. But it doesn't hurt me much as I would run the car lonely between other than tank cars.
I soldered on the brake hoses and coupler lift bars and converted to Tahoe trucks - and in my eyes it is a very nice model.
 
I am also VERY interested in decals, but for the early post-war years.
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 19:45 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

    I have a nice looking brass tank car.  It's 2 dome and etched on the bottom of the frame is AJIN,   10-1988.  It is painted gloss black and that's the way I bought it.  It has trucks with .066 (+/-) wheel sets which is interesting.  Bought years ago (probably eBay) and wonder if anyone knows of available decals (for my time era) that would work.  Also how accurate is this car?  I think there is 1 in the CBC's that match.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Jon Miller
 

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 01:02 PM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

Johannes,

Do not forget that on a two dome tank car, there are two compartments. The center end of each tank has a hemispherical end riveted into the car, giving the additional rivet lines on the car side. Thus, there is a space between the two tanks that makes the tank appear larger than its actual capacity. While I don't have the model in question to measure, I suspect that the size of the tank on the model is actually accurate.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

The model is supposed to be an 8000 gal car, but the tank unfortunately is
somewhat larger, I would guess about 9000 when I compare with a true 8000 and
a 10000 gal car.


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Overland did many excellent models of freight cars, however, they also did a few that are questionable.
I have both the two and three dohmw models which I detailed and painted back in the eighties.
I was pleased with them until recently.  I purchased a Tangent three dome car and set it next to the Overland car.  It looked like one was HO and the other N scale.  I I got the old Mainline Modeler article on yhree dome cars from Mike Schliegh.
The Overland model seemed to be oversized. zThe domes were certainly larger than any photos that zi found.

I would certainly like to vindicate these cars by finding out what Overland used for their research.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Date: 8/16/20 12:51 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 01:02 PM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

Johannes,

Do not forget that on a two dome tank car, there are two compartments. The center end of each tank has a hemispherical end riveted into the car, giving the additional rivet lines on the car side. Thus, there is a space between the two tanks that makes the tank appear larger than its actual capacity. While I don't have the model in question to measure, I suspect that the size of the tank on the model is actually accurate.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

> The model is supposed to be an 8000 gal car, but the tank unfortunately is
> somewhat larger, I would guess about 9000 when I compare with a true 8000 and
> a 10000 gal car.




Jon Miller
 

On 8/16/2020 4:25 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
Tangent three dome car and set it next to the Overland car.

    The Tangent tank is a 6K car.  The Ajin is an 8K and maybe the size of a 9K as Bruce Smith said.  The size difference is very obvious.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


mopacfirst
 

I get what Bruce is saying, look at the rivet lines where the internal heads are attached.  Now subtract a good bit of the distance between the pairs of rivet lines, which is dead air space (the volume outside of the heads, that are attached by those pairs of rivet lines).  If these were separate tanks, it would be more obvious. That may account for a lot of the difference in volume you're discussing.

A separate issue is the fact that, for whatever reason, two-compartment tanks are much rarer than three-compartment ones.

Ron Merrick


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

_._,_._,_


FOR COMPARISON:

The top photo is Tangent and Overland.  While I was there I tossed in a Tangent and Precision Scale photo.

Bilol Pardie


Jon Miller
 

On 8/16/2020 6:46 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

The top photo is Tangent and Overland.

    Excellent photo however the original discussion was about a brass 2 dome tank car.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Good point John.  I also have the two dohme model which was produced at the same time. I also have some reservations about the sizing of that one.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
Date: 8/16/20 5:12 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 6:46 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

The top photo is Tangent and Overland.

    Excellent photo however the original discussion was about a brass 2 dome tank car.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Craig Wilson
 

I recall a discussion of this car a while ago.  It does have a prototype albeit not a common one.  Arnt Gerritsen (draftsman and researcher for Overland Models) found it at the NIPSCO power plant in Michigan City Indiana.  At the time it was used for storage and was not in interchange service.  I don't believe any photos of a similar car have ever surfaced.  Arnt said it had a private reporting mark for NIPSCO but no evidence of any previous mark (GATX, ACFX, etc).  I painted one of these models for a friend years ago and lacking any other information we went though the equipment register listing for GATX and picked a number from an "empty" series.  You could do the same and just hide it when the prototype police show up at the door.

Craig Wilson


al_brown03
 

Is that an AC&F Type 27, or is it older? I'm not the best tank-car spotter.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Craig,
 
to make all the confusion complete, I am sure you are speaking of this car:
 
https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/109632/HO-Brass-Model-OMI-3230-GATC-10-000-Gallon-Tank-Car-Insulated-Double-Dome-Built-1930-Unpainted-1991-Run-Ajin
 
I remember that discussion, too.
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 07:35 Uhr
Von: "Craig Wilson" <agecompanyphotog@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car
I recall a discussion of this car a while ago.  It does have a prototype albeit not a common one.  Arnt Gerritsen (draftsman and researcher for Overland Models) found it at the NIPSCO power plant in Michigan City Indiana.  At the time it was used for storage and was not in interchange service.  I don't believe any photos of a similar car have ever surfaced.  Arnt said it had a private reporting mark for NIPSCO but no evidence of any previous mark (GATX, ACFX, etc).  I painted one of these models for a friend years ago and lacking any other information we went though the equipment register listing for GATX and picked a number from an "empty" series.  You could do the same and just hide it when the prototype police show up at the door.
 
Craig Wilson


vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Bruce,

many thanks for this explanation! Actually it was another member who said to me that the size of this model is too large and I believe him as he knows much more about freight cars than I, but your explanation definitely makes sense, too. Would be nice when that model is more correct in scale than I thought.

Thanks again and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 00:51 Uhr
Von: "Bruce Smith" <@smithbf>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 01:02 PM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

Johannes,

Do not forget that on a two dome tank car, there are two compartments. The center end of each tank has a hemispherical end riveted into the car, giving the additional rivet lines on the car side. Thus, there is a space between the two tanks that makes the tank appear larger than its actual capacity. While I don't have the model in question to measure, I suspect that the size of the tank on the model is actually accurate.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

The model is supposed to be an 8000 gal car, but the tank unfortunately is
somewhat larger, I would guess about 9000 when I compare with a true 8000 and
a 10000 gal car.



vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Jon,
 
are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?
When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car
On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Jim Betz
 

Jon,

                   " $200 WOW! "

  Don't be too surprised about eBay prices for stuff like this unpainted
brass tank car from Overland being sold by Trainz.  Many sellers put a
price on something simply by guessing at its value - perhaps even
most.  Or they simply trust something like "The Brass Book" which has
often proven to have very little relationship to the real world pricing.
  Trainz, at least, is one of the sellers that gets it about "if it doesn't
sell at $___ then reduce the price" ... usually about 10% per reduction. 
And they seem to find a buyer with at most a 20-30% reduction.
  The whole brass market is skewed due to the "collectors" who buy
and sell brass based upon its collectible value (it's "rare").  That,
combined with the reductions in run sizes ...

  But I digress from the stated purpose of this list.  This is a nice
model of what appears to be a relatively rare prototype.  I doubt
that it is very far off the mark in terms of "accuracy" but is probably
not a model that, if lettered correctly, would be likely to show up on
very many of the prototypically based layouts.  But you can letter
however you want and use it however you want ("Rule #1").

  I find the fact that it is a two-dome that was owned by Nipsco a
bit hard to explain.  I'm trying to explain to myself the reason for
any power plant to own a two-dome car.  What would a power
plant be needing that justifies a two-dome car (relatively small
quantities of two different non-standard liquids)?  It has me
scratching my head to explain it.
                                                                                     - Jim


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I agree with you, Jim, but take note that this car, at $200, is marked SOLD.  No need for Trainz to reduce the price.

 

As to NIPSCO using the car, there’s nothing to say that they used the two tanks for different liquids; they may not have done so.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Jon,

                   " $200 WOW! "

  Don't be too surprised about eBay prices for stuff like this unpainted
brass tank car from Overland being sold by Trainz.  Many sellers put a
price on something simply by guessing at its value - perhaps even
most.  Or they simply trust something like "The Brass Book" which has
often proven to have very little relationship to the real world pricing.
  Trainz, at least, is one of the sellers that gets it about "if it doesn't
sell at $___ then reduce the price" ... usually about 10% per reduction. 
And they seem to find a buyer with at most a 20-30% reduction.
  The whole brass market is skewed due to the "collectors" who buy
and sell brass based upon its collectible value (it's "rare").  That,
combined with the reductions in run sizes ...

  But I digress from the stated purpose of this list.  This is a nice
model of what appears to be a relatively rare prototype.  I doubt
that it is very far off the mark in terms of "accuracy" but is probably
not a model that, if lettered correctly, would be likely to show up on
very many of the prototypically based layouts.  But you can letter
however you want and use it however you want ("Rule #1").

  I find the fact that it is a two-dome that was owned by Nipsco a
bit hard to explain.  I'm trying to explain to myself the reason for
any power plant to own a two-dome car.  What would a power
plant be needing that justifies a two-dome car (relatively small
quantities of two different non-standard liquids)?  It has me
scratching my head to explain it.
                                                                                     - Jim


vapeurchapelon
 

Do you mean the one we were originally discussing? I can see the brake wheel right at the first photo, right side:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-3131-HO-BRASS-ACF-8-000-Gal-Double-Dome-Tank-Car-Unpainted-EX-Box/392901430442?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Or do you speak of the GATC car I brought into discussion because this is (afaik!) the "NIPSCO" car (if I am wrong with this I APOLOGIZE!)? Browse the photos and there too you will see the brake wheel:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-3131-HO-BRASS-ACF-8-000-Gal-Double-Dome-Tank-Car-Unpainted-EX-Box/392901430442?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:02 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, yes, since both links take me to the same car . . .  😊

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:28 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Do you mean the one we were originally discussing? I can see the brake wheel right at the first photo, right side:

 

 

Or do you speak of the GATC car I brought into discussion because this is (afaik!) the "NIPSCO" car (if I am wrong with this I APOLOGIZE!)? Browse the photos and there too you will see the brake wheel:

 

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:02 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS