Bull Boards
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:55:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
As I understand it is a board across the door opening from the inside. Here is a snip from a 1930 RI drawing
There were receptacles on the door frame to accept the board.
HTH
Steve Hile
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societies have a standard drawing for bull boards? I can't imagine what they would look like.
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Alex Schneider <Hudson5450@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:55:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societys
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:30:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
As I understand it is a board across the door opening from the inside. Here is a snip from a 1930 RI drawing
There were receptacles on the door frame to accept the board.
HTH
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Alex Schneider
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societies have a standard drawing for bull boards? I can't imagine what they would look like.
Alex Schneider
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Alex Schneider <Hudson5450@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:55:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societys
Alex Schneider
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
Do any of the railroad history societies have a standard drawing for bull boards? I can't imagine what they would look like.Alex, they look like boards. (Surprise)
About 2x6 or so, with the length to fit between doorposts.
Some form of pocket or bracket is applied to each door post to hold the bull board across the opening at about chest height of a steer. Usually one end of the board is changed to the carboay to prevent loss, as the boards were considered part of the cars equipment rather than loose dunnage, at the quoted letter notes.
I think Steve Sandifer's Santa Fe livestock ops book has some photos that show bull boards in place.
Jack Mullen
Thank you for this helpful information.
J. Stephen Sandifer
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
They were heavy boards that were placed across the door opening, usually in sockets on the door facings.
RDG photo attached shows bull board in place on 2nd car across doorway.
The CB&Q photo attaches shows the bull board in a “holster” to the left of the door. This was common on the CB&Q.
Many stock cars had top hung doors. The bottom of the door had an elongated loop that fit over a round bar to hold the door on. It is easy to see how an animal could push the door outward and then have a foot call through the crack.
J. Stephen Sandifer
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societies have a standard drawing for bull boards? I can't imagine what they would look like.
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Alex Schneider <Hudson5450@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:55:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societys
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
The CB&Q had metal caps on both ends of bull boards, with an eyebolt and chain to attach the board to the face of the door post. There was a bracket on the side of the car to hold the bull boards when the car wasn’t loaded. Bull boards were placed on both sides of the cars. The purpose was to protect the doors, which were loosely attached to the car at the bottom right by a chain that slide on a rod attached to the side sill. The photo labeled with the Bull Board suffix clearly shows the bull board bracket and chain. The bull boards weren’t visible when the car was loaded, and all you could see was the empty side brackets in the photo I use to letter my double deck car. Bull boards and brackets are seldom modeled, but I put them on all my CB&Q stock cars and painted a bull boards for all of them.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
As I understand it is a board across the door opening from the inside. Here is a snip from a 1930 RI drawing
There were receptacles on the door frame to accept the board.
HTH
Steve Hile
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Alex Schneider
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societies have a standard drawing for bull boards? I can't imagine what they would look like.
Alex Schneider
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Alex Schneider <Hudson5450@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:55:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societys
Alex Schneider
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
Attached is part of a 1929 ATSF drawing of a SK-T doorway showing the bullboard chained to the door facing. The SK-T is one of the classes modeled by Intermountain. The board is 9” x 1-3/4”. The door opening is 5’1”.
J. Stephen Sandifer
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
There were no brackets on the inside of the car to hold the bull board. The board was inserted into slots in the door frame between the two uprights, as seen in the interior shot of
Southern 48650. Brackets on the inside would cause injury to livestock. Attached is a patent drawing showing a special device for holding the bull board up above when not needed, then it slid down the special device in place when needed.
Others have provided drawings, photos and other information. The CBQ had brackets on the outside of the car to the left of the door to hold the bull board when not in use.
Doug Harding
https://www.facebook.com/douglas.harding.3156/
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
So the board is a 2x8 (nominal) of length slightly greater than the door opening, inserted into a bracket? I can see why they would be susceptible to theft.
Were the boards stenciled with road name and car number?
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:30:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
As I understand it is a board across the door opening from the inside. Here is a snip from a 1930 RI drawing
There were receptacles on the door frame to accept the board.
HTH
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alex Schneider
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societies have a standard drawing for bull boards? I can't imagine what they would look like.
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Alex Schneider <Hudson5450@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:55:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Do any of the railroad history societys
Alex Schneider
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2022 3:26:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
All,
About a year ago we had a small discussion on Stock Car Bull Boards and their purpose. The following is from the June 1948 Freight Claims Division of The Association of American Railroads.
BULLETIN No. 878, December 3, 1947
To Freight Claim and Prevention Officers:
As a matter of interest, we quote the following circular under File No.600 - D-1, November 6th, By Secretary A. C. Browning of the Association's Mechanical Division:
"The attention of this Association has been directed to a number of cases where cattle fell from stock cars due to the cars not being equipped with bull boards, thus permitting the cattle to push the side doors open and fall to the right-of-way.
Our investigation discloses that bull boards are standard equipment for single deck cars and should be available for use whenever required to protect the loading of cattle or other livestock requiring protection of this kind. Car owners are here by requested to check all single deck cars of their ownership at the first opportunity to make sure that they are properly equipped with bull boards in good condition and that they are replaced where missing or defective.
Where cars are offered for loading with bull boards missing or defective, the boards should be replaced before such cars are loaded, billing the expense against the car owner, as bull boards are considered an integral part of the car."
"Perhaps you can assist the Mechanical Division in supervising against this defect."
NATIONAL FREIGHT, LOSS AND DAMAGE PREVENTION COMMITTEE, C.C. Beauprie, Assistant Secretary.
That was so that the bottom of the door could be swung out to clear wet straw bedding that had become pushed against the door, especially if it froze during winter. However, most stockcars had a hasp on both edges of the door to prevent it from doing so when sealed, but that's not saying rambunctious cattle couldn't rattle the door open. The bull boards were an extra measure of protection.Many stock cars had top hung doors. The bottom of the door had an elongated loop that fit over a round bar to hold the door on. It is easy to see how an animal could push the door outward and then have a foot fall through the crack.
Dennis Storzek
Following the dotted lines, it seems to describe an arc -- Is this bar on a hinge, so it drops into place
when the door is closed?
On 12/17/2022 6:01 PM, Jack Mullen wrote:
Here's a detail of the LH&StL 1927 AC&F stockcar from the '28 Cyc. This one shows a 5" x 2-1/2" bar, 3' 4" above floor.
Jack MullenAttachments:
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Following the dotted lines, it seems to describe an arc -- Is this bar on a hinge, so it drops into placeGood question. My interpretation of the drawings is that this is a loose bar, not hinged. The right doorpost is mortised for a rectangular pocket, the left with a similar pocket but having a tapered channel extending upward.
when the door is closed?
The right end of the bar would be inserted into its pocket while the bar is held at an upward angle in the doorway. Pivoting the bar in the right pocket, the other end is lowered, fitting into the tapered channel and dropping into the left pocket, then secured by a keeper that prevents it being jiggled up and out. So it's mechanically simple, not hinged needed, but the free end does swing in a vertical arc to fit into place.
Noting the chain securing the bar to the car, I think the bull board could be hung inside the car near the roof when not in use.
It's interesting that this drawing for a car with a wood-framed body, somewhat archaic when built in 1927, continued to appear in the Cyc into the '40s.
Jack Mullen
Bull board handling is road dependent. CB&Q chains them to the door post and puts them in an outside bracket when not in use per photos attached earlier. The chain is long enough to allow the bull board to be slid into the door post slots and reach the outside side brackets.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2022 1:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Following the dotted lines, it seems to describe an arc -- Is this bar on a hinge, so it drops into place
when the door is closed?
On 12/17/2022 6:01 PM, Jack Mullen wrote:
Here's a detail of the LH&StL 1927 AC&F stockcar from the '28 Cyc. This one shows a 5" x 2-1/2" bar, 3' 4" above floor.
Jack MullenAttachments:
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
--
Ted Larson
trainweb.org/mhrr/ -------- NASG.org -------- https://www.nasg.org/Clubs/RegionsMinnesota.php
GN in 1965
Not easy to see because of the back light, but you can enlarge this image a lot. This is the inside of ATSF SK-R at the National Ranching Heritage Museum in Lubbock, TX. You can see that one side is chained so it won’t get lost (supposedly). You can also see the slot in the door frame.
J. Stephen Sandifer
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2022 1:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Bull Boards
Following the dotted lines, it seems to describe an arc -- Is this bar on a hinge, so it drops into place
when the door is closed?
On 12/17/2022 6:01 PM, Jack Mullen wrote:
Here's a detail of the LH&StL 1927 AC&F stockcar from the '28 Cyc. This one shows a 5" x 2-1/2" bar, 3' 4" above floor.
Jack MullenAttachments:
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
