Topics

C&I Hopper


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

While rambling through my collection, I came upon this view of Cambria & Indiana hopper 1888. Oddly, this was taken in Charlottesville, Virginia, on the C&O (well, really CSX by then), probably in late 1984. What a car from a 35-mile Pennsylvania shortline was doing in a C&O train is beyond me.

In those days, the former C&O Mountain Division saw many trains each way. Trains stopped on the west side of town before moving into the small yard. This happened to be right behind the computer store where I worked, so I often got a good view of cars, though few photos. 

This car series is not listed in my October 1958 ORER, so I suspect it was a second-hand purchase, possibly beyond our era of interest, though the car itself certainly dates to our period.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



charlie9
 

This car is obviously in a train of mixed freight.  When I worked on the Big Four at Harrisburg Il. we had an ocean of NYC hoppers.  There was one little L&N car that showed up between the same two NYC cars from time to time.  Somehow it got caught up in coal train service on our line and nobody ever make the effort to throw it out and send it home.

The point I want to make is that regardless of your era, a foreign car or two would not really be out of place and would give you an excuse to model something different.

Charlie


Eric Hansmann
 

Those C&I hoppers have been travelling for years. Here’s one in an Andover, MA, wreck, circa 1929.

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:6682x954j

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 5:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

 

Friends,

 

While rambling through my collection, I came upon this view of Cambria & Indiana hopper 1888. Oddly, this was taken in Charlottesville, Virginia, on the C&O (well, really CSX by then), probably in late 1984. What a car from a 35-mile Pennsylvania shortline was doing in a C&O train is beyond me.

 

In those days, the former C&O Mountain Division saw many trains each way. Trains stopped on the west side of town before moving into the small yard. This happened to be right behind the computer store where I worked, so I often got a good view of cars, though few photos. 

 

This car series is not listed in my October 1958 ORER, so I suspect it was a second-hand purchase, possibly beyond our era of interest, though the car itself certainly dates to our period.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

 


vapeurchapelon
 

Wow, what a photo! And at the far right there are two people thoughtless directly under the flying box car...
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Samstag, 28. November 2020 um 17:47 Uhr
Von: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

Those C&I hoppers have been travelling for years. Here’s one in an Andover, MA, wreck, circa 1929.

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:6682x954j

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 5:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

 

Friends,

 

While rambling through my collection, I came upon this view of Cambria & Indiana hopper 1888. Oddly, this was taken in Charlottesville, Virginia, on the C&O (well, really CSX by then), probably in late 1984. What a car from a 35-mile Pennsylvania shortline was doing in a C&O train is beyond me.

 

In those days, the former C&O Mountain Division saw many trains each way. Trains stopped on the west side of town before moving into the small yard. This happened to be right behind the computer store where I worked, so I often got a good view of cars, though few photos. 

 

This car series is not listed in my October 1958 ORER, so I suspect it was a second-hand purchase, possibly beyond our era of interest, though the car itself certainly dates to our period.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

 

 


Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s a companion photo that includes another Reading hopper.

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:6682x814c

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

 

Wow, what a photo! And at the far right there are two people thoughtless directly under the flying box car...

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 


vincent altiere
 

Is that  Fowler boxcar ??

Vince Altiere


-----Original Message-----
From: vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Nov 29, 2020 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

Wow, what a photo! And at the far right there are two people thoughtless directly under the flying box car...
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Samstag, 28. November 2020 um 17:47 Uhr
Von: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper
Those C&I hoppers have been travelling for years. Here’s one in an Andover, MA, wreck, circa 1929.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 5:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper
 
Friends,
 
While rambling through my collection, I came upon this view of Cambria & Indiana hopper 1888. Oddly, this was taken in Charlottesville, Virginia, on the C&O (well, really CSX by then), probably in late 1984. What a car from a 35-mile Pennsylvania shortline was doing in a C&O train is beyond me.
 
In those days, the former C&O Mountain Division saw many trains each way. Trains stopped on the west side of town before moving into the small yard. This happened to be right behind the computer store where I worked, so I often got a good view of cars, though few photos. 
 
This car series is not listed in my October 1958 ORER, so I suspect it was a second-hand purchase, possibly beyond our era of interest, though the car itself certainly dates to our period.
 
Yours Aye,
 
 
Garth Groff
 
 
 


Eric Hansmann
 

I would say it’s a Fowler boxcar. 

Some argue otherwise. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On Nov 29, 2020, at 4:20 PM, vincent altiere via groups.io <steel77086@...> wrote:

Is that  Fowler boxcar ??

Vince Altiere


George Courtney
 

In Ed Wolfe's book on the small, Appalachian railroad, the Interstate, he mentioned they tracked off line cars and some were months in returning.  They had to threaten the B&O who was  the worse for using Interstate hoppers in their area.  Interstate hoppers went north to piers on the great lakes.  Oddly, i have seen a 1953 photo of a Lehigh Valley twin hopper wrecked on the Interstate.  In the early days of this hobby. both Al Kalmbach and Bruce Chubb, following Al,  put out the commonsense, but inaccurate idea that cars did not travel far from home.   If a customer had an order for a hundred cars of coal and the railroad only had 90 cars, it would have been bad business practice to not use 10 foreign hoppers on your line and available.  Or you could inform the customer he would have to wait while you sent the extra foreign road cars home because you could not use them.  Perhaps a misunderstanding on my part, but I thought each ARA railroad had to contribute their share of whatever kind of regular car to the national pool for boxcars and gons and flats. If your railroad did 8% of the boxcar business, then the ARA expected you to built and contribute 8% of the boxcars which could go anywhere.  Back on topic, I've seen DVD's of the N&W moving blocks of Interstate hoppers to their docks in Norfolk.



George Courtney


Brian Carlson
 

your understanding of boxcars, gons and flats is incorrect. 

Certain industries had boxcar pooling agreements where railroads contributed a percentage of cars  but in the life of this list it was a later development.  

Boxcars and to a certain extent flats did operate nationwide basis based on their percentages.  But it wasn’t spelled out by the ARA or AAR. 

World war years were different of course. 

Lists of information in the list archives if you search. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 29, 2020, at 6:36 PM, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:

In Ed Wolfe's book on the small, Appalachian railroad, the Interstate, he mentioned they tracked off line cars and some were months in returning.  They had to threaten the B&O who was  the worse for using Interstate hoppers in their area.  Interstate hoppers went north to piers on the great lakes.  Oddly, i have seen a 1953 photo of a Lehigh Valley twin hopper wrecked on the Interstate.  In the early days of this hobby. both Al Kalmbach and Bruce Chubb, following Al,  put out the commonsense, but inaccurate idea that cars did not travel far from home.   If a customer had an order for a hundred cars of coal and the railroad only had 90 cars, it would have been bad business practice to not use 10 foreign hoppers on your line and available.  Or you could inform the customer he would have to wait while you sent the extra foreign road cars home because you could not use them.  Perhaps a misunderstanding on my part, but I thought each ARA railroad had to contribute their share of whatever kind of regular car to the national pool for boxcars and gons and flats. If your railroad did 8% of the boxcar business, then the ARA expected you to built and contribute 8% of the boxcars which could go anywhere.  Back on topic, I've seen DVD's of the N&W moving blocks of Interstate hoppers to their docks in Norfolk.



George Courtney


Ray Breyer
 

In contemporary railroad engineering terms, that's a steel frame, outside framed boxcar (what they called these cars when built in the 1909-1916 period when most of them were built).

In HOBBY terms, these are either called Fowlers or Dominion cars, depending on which side of the icy borderlands you're from. (odd thing about the Dominion name; most of these cars were built by CC&F, but nobody calls them that....)

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Sunday, November 29, 2020, 04:20:24 PM CST, vincent altiere via groups.io <steel77086@...> wrote:


Is that  Fowler boxcar ??

Vince Altiere


-----Original Message-----
From: vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Nov 29, 2020 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

Wow, what a photo! And at the far right there are two people thoughtless directly under the flying box car...
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Samstag, 28. November 2020 um 17:47 Uhr
Von: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper
Those C&I hoppers have been travelling for years. Here’s one in an Andover, MA, wreck, circa 1929.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 5:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper
 
Friends,
 
While rambling through my collection, I came upon this view of Cambria & Indiana hopper 1888. Oddly, this was taken in Charlottesville, Virginia, on the C&O (well, really CSX by then), probably in late 1984. What a car from a 35-mile Pennsylvania shortline was doing in a C&O train is beyond me.
 
In those days, the former C&O Mountain Division saw many trains each way. Trains stopped on the west side of town before moving into the small yard. This happened to be right behind the computer store where I worked, so I often got a good view of cars, though few photos. 
 
This car series is not listed in my October 1958 ORER, so I suspect it was a second-hand purchase, possibly beyond our era of interest, though the car itself certainly dates to our period.
 
Yours Aye,
 
 
Garth Groff
 
 
 


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi George and List Members,
 
I have seen a photo of a CTH&SE (Chicago, Terre Haute, and Southerstern, a Milwaukee Road subsidiary) twin hopper wrecked on the RUTLAND railroad.
 
So clearly hoppers could get around at least occasionally, altho maybe less so than other car types.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&I Hopper

In Ed Wolfe's book on the small, Appalachian railroad, the Interstate, he mentioned they tracked off line cars and some were months in returning.  They had to threaten the B&O who was  the worse for using Interstate hoppers in their area.  Interstate hoppers went north to piers on the great lakes.  Oddly, i have seen a 1953 photo of a Lehigh Valley twin hopper wrecked on the Interstate.  In the early days of this hobby. both Al Kalmbach and Bruce Chubb, following Al,  put out the commonsense, but inaccurate idea that cars did not travel far from home.   If a customer had an order for a hundred cars of coal and the railroad only had 90 cars, it would have been bad business practice to not use 10 foreign hoppers on your line and available.  Or you could inform the customer he would have to wait while you sent the extra foreign road cars home because you could not use them.  Perhaps a misunderstanding on my part, but I thought each ARA railroad had to contribute their share of whatever kind of regular car to the national pool for boxcars and gons and flats. If your railroad did 8% of the boxcar business, then the ARA expected you to built and contribute 8% of the boxcars which could go anywhere.  Back on topic, I've seen DVD's of the N&W moving blocks of Interstate hoppers to their docks in Norfolk.



George Courtney