Car Builder’s Dictionaries


Bob Chaparro
 


Bob Chaparro
 

Two more, courtesy of Ken Martin:

1912

https://archive.org/details/cu31924032183208

1916

https://archive.org/details/cu31924032183216

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Ed Mims
 

The old Car Builders Dictionaries are terrific. Thanks for posting.

I'm still looking for "stirrup step" in one. There seems to be no such thing used on full size railroad equipment--only used on scale models of freight cars.

Ed Mims


Tony Thompson
 

Ed Mims wrote:

I'm still looking for "stirrup step" in one. There seems to be no such thing used on full size railroad equipment--only used on scale models of freight cars.
In the prototype world, they are called “sill steps.” Always have been

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Rupert Gamlen
 

The link to Hathi Trust that Ken Martin sent http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000552394 includes the 1925 CBC at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015006056561

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 4 July 2021 4:04 am
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Car Builder’s Dictionaries

 

Two more, courtesy of Ken Martin:

1912

https://archive.org/details/cu31924032183208

1916

https://archive.org/details/cu31924032183216

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Ed Mims
 

Tony Thompson is correct. In the real world they are not "stirrup steps" they are sill steps and always have been. Where did the name "stirrup steps" come from?

Ed Mims


Nelson Moyer
 

It’s the model press that introduced and perpetuates the term stirrup and stirrup step. The kit manufacturers contribute to its continued use. Same thing with roof walk.

 

The first mention of ‘stirrup’ was in the fourth issue of Model Railroader, April 1934, and it’s been used in Model Railroader ever since.

 

The first mention of ‘roof walk’ is in the March 1935 issue of Model Railroader, and it’s been used extensively ever since.

 

Until the model press and manufacturers use correct terminology, there’s no hope of expunging ‘stirrup step’ and ‘roof walk’ from the model lexicon.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ed Mims
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 6:49 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Car Builder’s Dictionaries

 

Tony Thompson is correct. In the real world they are not "stirrup steps" they are sill steps and always have been. Where did the name "stirrup steps" come from?

Ed Mims

 


Benjamin Hom
 

Ed Mims asked:
"Tony Thompson is correct. In the real world they are not "stirrup steps" they are sill steps and always have been. Where did the name 'stirrup steps' come from?"

The same place where "outside-braced boxcar" and "roofwalk" came from - the enthusiast press.


Ben Hom


Nelson Moyer
 

‘Outside braced’ first appears in Model Railroader in the September 1939 ad for Laconia Industries, Inc. freight cars. Again, blame the editors and manufacturers for introducing and perpetuating incorrect terminology.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 7:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Car Builder’s Dictionaries

 

Ed Mims asked:

"Tony Thompson is correct. In the real world they are not "stirrup steps" they are sill steps and always have been. Where did the name 'stirrup steps' come from?"

 

The same place where "outside-braced boxcar" and "roofwalk" came from - the enthusiast press.

 

 

Ben Hom

 


Bernd Schroeder
 

Hi all,

as for the term roofwalk, in the future of this list the protorype might have been inspired by the enthusiast press.

At least the Microscale data sets include roofwalk as well as running board on these pesky yellow stickers...

Bernd



--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.
Am 04.07.21, 14:06 schrieb Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>:

Ed Mims asked:
"Tony Thompson is correct. In the real world they are not "stirrup steps" they are sill steps and always have been. Where did the name 'stirrup steps' come from?"

The same place where "outside-braced boxcar" and "roofwalk" came from - the enthusiast press.


Ben Hom


Chris Barkan
 

Another invented term commonly used in the model railroad community is "grab iron".  The correct rail-industry term for these is "handhold".
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Nelson Moyer
 

Interestingly, ‘handhold’ was first used in Model Railroader in July 1934, while ‘grab iron’ wasn’t used until December 1934. After that, ‘grab iron’ was the predominant term. This is an example of the correct term morphing into colloquial usage.

 

I searched ‘sill step’, ‘single sheathed’, and single-sheathed’, and the first usage in Model Railroader was February 1936, July 1935, and November 1937, respectively. So both the correct terms and colloquial terms were used from the beginning of model railroading, with the colloquial terms becoming predominant into the present.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Barkan
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 8:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Car Builder’s Dictionaries

 

Another invented term commonly used in the model railroad community is "grab iron".  The correct rail-industry term for these is "handhold".
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Kenneth Montero
 

Re: Running boards, single-sheathed, handholds.
 
Are there any other such terms?
 
In the spirit of this website, is it incumbent on us, individually and as a group, to use the prototypical terms on this website and elsewhere, and encourage others (including model press editors) to do the same? Perhaps with an explanation, such as "and referred to a ____ in the railroad industry"?
 
Ken Montero
 

On 07/04/2021 10:03 AM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
 
 

Interestingly, ‘handhold’ was first used in Model Railroader in July 1934, while ‘grab iron’ wasn’t used until December 1934. After that, ‘grab iron’ was the predominant term. This is an example of the correct term morphing into colloquial usage.

 

I searched ‘sill step’, ‘single sheathed’, and single-sheathed’, and the first usage in Model Railroader was February 1936, July 1935, and November 1937, respectively. So both the correct terms and colloquial terms were used from the beginning of model railroading, with the colloquial terms becoming predominant into the present.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Barkan
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 8:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Car Builder’s Dictionaries

 

Another invented term commonly used in the model railroad community is "grab iron".  The correct rail-industry term for these is "handhold".
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL

 


Ed Mims
 

There is one more term that comes to mind and that is "speed recorder" (sorry, not part of a freight car). The garget used on the end of a locomotive axle has never been used as a "speed recorder". It can be a speed recorder drive for the old mechanical speed indicator mounted near the engineers position and in his view (this sometimes included a recording device). Or it can be an axle alternator or generation which produces an electrical signal proportionate to the locomotive's speed which can be displayed in the locomotive cab. There have been many varieties of speed recorders which receive a signal from a device mounted at the end of a splined axle and driven by that axle. None of these end-of-axle devices to my knowledge recorded speed. They only produce a rotary motion or an electrical signal which can be used to indicate speed and also in some cases to activate a recording device.

Thanks to Nelson Moyer for identifying to origin of these terms. I think we should help others understand and use the correct names, doing so politely. Not a big deal, I just like using the correct names.

Ed Mims
Jacksonville, FL



Dave Parker
 

On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 06:42 AM, Chris Barkan wrote:
Another invented term commonly used in the model railroad community is "grab iron".  The correct rail-industry term for these is "handhold".
I am as much in favor of correct terminology as the next person, but let's not get carried away.  From the 1931 CBC:



Note the parenthetical mention of the term "hand hold"; there is no separate listing for it in the glossary of terms.
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Bob Chaparro
 

In the 1909 Car Builders’ Dictionary “handhold” is mentioned 142 times. “Grabiron” is mentioned 28 times and “grab iron” is mentioned 19 times.
Bob Chaparro

 

Hemet, CA


Chris Barkan
 


--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Ed & Group!!

Ed your point is not clear.  Speed recording was indeed a feature of the axle driven devices on locomotives.  Yes, speed indicating was also a feature.  See pages 6-471 through 6-474 of the 1947 "LOCOMOTIVE CYCLOPEDIA" which offers information about both Chicago-Pneumatic and General Electric devices.  C-P seems to have been the dominant supplier.

I saw these in service on ERIE GP7 road switchers.  Every run included a paper disk on which was recorded the loco speed through the assignment.  This C-P equipment was driven by a device on the No. 2 axle and the recording device was right there at the control stand where the engineer could see what was being recorded.  These locomotives almost always pulled, pushed, and switched steam-era freight cars.

Of course, no such equipment was ever standard issue or applied to freight cars.  So, why was this even mentioned?

Happy Fourth Of July to everyone--Thank God for our freedoms!

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.



On Sunday,.ppli July 4, 2021, 11:32:38 AM EDT, Ed Mims <wemims3@...> wrote:


There is one more term that comes to mind and that is "speed recorder" (sorry, not part of a freight car). The garget used on the end of a locomotive axle has never been used as a "speed recorder". It can be a speed recorder drive for the old mechanical speed indicator mounted near the engineers position and in his view (this sometimes included a recording device). Or it can be an axle alternator or generation which produces an electrical signal proportionate to the locomotive's speed which can be displayed in the locomotive cab. There have been many varieties of speed recorders which receive a signal from a device mounted at the end of a splined axle and driven by that axle. None of these end-of-axle devices to my knowledge recorded speed. They only produce a rotary motion or an electrical signal which can be used to indicate speed and also in some cases to activate a recording device.

Thanks to Nelson Moyer for identifying to origin of these terms. I think we should help others understand and use the correct names, doing so politely. Not a big deal, I just like using the correct names.

Ed Mims
Jacksonville, FL



fire5506
 

Proper Railroad terms and slang, you need to be careful saying whether it's prototype or railfan terminology. Caboose, depending on the railroad it could be a hack, cabin car cab, etc. I worked in the Mechanical dept for 38 years and heard a lot of what is reputed to be railfan/modelers slang used by old heads. Hand hold / grab iron, hold hold in rules and grab iron in day to day use. I've seen grab iron used in manufactures catalogs. Uncoupling lever in rules and cut lever in daily use. Transportation still calls brake valves "triple valves even though triple valves were from the K brake days. I've heard roof walks and running boards used.

Richard


Tony Thompson
 

We don’t have to guess what the actual railroad industry terms were, because we have the definitions in volumes of the Cyclopedias. Richard Hendrickson always advocated using those defined terms as the first choice. Knowing what working railroaders called things is less valuable, not only because it varied from railroad to railroad and from division to division, but because it was often slang. In effect, the Cyc terms are the engineering terms. Let’s use them.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com