Hello Bill and list,
I would like to address the second part of Bills comment, about the CBQ only serving Denver stockyards directly.
I believe in Chicago that Burlington trains would directly deliver their loaded stock cars to the union stockyard.
I know Milwaukee road stock trains did run directly into the Chicago Union stockyards. I would imagine there was some trackage rights arrangement that allowed the trains to directly deliver loaded stock to the yards. I would assume all of the other Chicago railroads could also deliver their stock directly to the yards.
I have dispatcher sheets that show Sunday afternoons with many stock trains coming into Chicago on the Milwaukee road and then with a mainline crew change in bensenville running directly into the Chicago Union stock yards.
While the main line railroads delivered their stock trains directly to the stockyards, the local terminal railroad may have switched the stock cars to the unloading ramps.
I would assume there were other arrangements in places like Sioux City, Omaha and Kansas City stockyards for other direct delivery of stock trains.
Ted

Ted, it may depend on the time period? My 1941 report on the B&O's control of the Alton
includes a map showing all of the lines and yards in the Chicago area. On the north side of the
Union Stockyards is an east-west line labeled C.J. -- which I assume means Chicago Junction?
To the west is a yard labeled C.J. Ashland Ave Yard, oriented east-west. Just south of it is a
north-south yard that looks like Leavitt St (??) which is either PCC&StL (??) or B&OCT. (It's
a kinda smudgy map.) On the south side is another east-west line labeled IHB that wyes directly
into the stock yards. Parallel and just south of the IHB is a GTW line. Just to the west-southwest
of the stockyards is a curved yard that says Loomis St but no indication of ownership. This yard
appears to access the stockyards from the south. To the east of the stockyards are north-south
lines with labels Wabash Yard, C&WI 51st St Yard, PFW&C Garfield Blvd Yard. Loomis St
seems to be the yard most likely to serve the stock yards, but there are also two small east-west
yards just below the stock yards that essentially form the bottom of a "U" with the west side and
east side of the "U" comes off that C.J. east-west line. The east side (north-south) of this "U" is
the same line that comes from the IHB wye.

Hard to describe without a picture ! :-)

Anyway it looks a lot like only one or two railroads actually owned tracks into the stock yards.

On 3/11/2023 12:48 PM, ted schnepf wrote:

Hello Bill and list,
I would like to address the second part of Bills comment, about the CBQ only serving Denver stockyards directly.
I believe in Chicago that Burlington trains would directly deliver their loaded stock cars to the union stockyard.
I know Milwaukee road stock trains did run directly into the Chicago Union stockyards. I would imagine there was some trackage rights arrangement that allowed the trains to directly deliver loaded stock to the yards. I would assume all of the other Chicago railroads could also deliver their stock directly to the yards.
I have dispatcher sheets that show Sunday afternoons with many stock trains coming into Chicago on the Milwaukee road and then with a mainline crew change in bensenville running directly into the Chicago Union stock yards.
While the main line railroads delivered their stock trains directly to the stockyards, the local terminal railroad may have switched the stock cars to the unloading ramps.
I would assume there were other arrangements in places like Sioux City, Omaha and Kansas City stockyards for other direct delivery of stock trains.
Ted

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Hello Tim,
CJ may have owned the track at the stockyards, but the main line railroads owned CJ and worked out trackage rights agreements over the various railroads to reach the stockyards directly. These same sort of agreements were used by railroads to interchange cars in large cities between none connecting carriers.
On the Burlington list a member with access to Union agreements, confirmed that the CB&Q  directly delivered livestock to the union stockyards in Chicago.

Ted

--
Sent from Outlook Email App for Android

Saturday, 11 March 2023, 04:57PM -06:00 from Tim O'Connor timboconnor@...:

Ted, it may depend on the time period? My 1941 report on the B&O's control of the Alton
includes a map showing all of the lines and yards in the Chicago area. On the north side of the
Union Stockyards is an east-west line labeled C.J. -- which I assume means Chicago Junction?
To the west is a yard labeled C.J. Ashland Ave Yard, oriented east-west. Just south of it is a
north-south yard that looks like Leavitt St (??) which is either PCC&StL (??) or B&OCT. (It's
a kinda smudgy map.) On the south side is another east-west line labeled IHB that wyes directly
into the stock yards. Parallel and just south of the IHB is a GTW line. Just to the west-southwest
of the stockyards is a curved yard that says Loomis St but no indication of ownership. This yard
appears to access the stockyards from the south. To the east of the stockyards are north-south
lines with labels Wabash Yard, C&WI 51st St Yard, PFW&C Garfield Blvd Yard. Loomis St
seems to be the yard most likely to serve the stock yards, but there are also two small east-west
yards just below the stock yards that essentially form the bottom of a "U" with the west side and
east side of the "U" comes off that C.J. east-west line. The east side (north-south) of this "U" is
the same line that comes from the IHB wye.

Hard to describe without a picture ! :-)

Anyway it looks a lot like only one or two railroads actually owned tracks into the stock yards.

On 3/11/2023 12:48 PM, ted schnepf wrote:

Hello Bill and list,
I would like to address the second part of Bills comment, about the CBQ only serving Denver stockyards directly.
I believe in Chicago that Burlington trains would directly deliver their loaded stock cars to the union stockyard.
I know Milwaukee road stock trains did run directly into the Chicago Union stockyards. I would imagine there was some trackage rights arrangement that allowed the trains to directly deliver loaded stock to the yards. I would assume all of the other Chicago railroads could also deliver their stock directly to the yards.
I have dispatcher sheets that show Sunday afternoons with many stock trains coming into Chicago on the Milwaukee road and then with a mainline crew change in bensenville running directly into the Chicago Union stock yards.
While the main line railroads delivered their stock trains directly to the stockyards, the local terminal railroad may have switched the stock cars to the unloading ramps.
I would assume there were other arrangements in places like Sioux City, Omaha and Kansas City stockyards for other direct delivery of stock trains.
Ted

Here is a wonderful 1980 depiction of the entire area on the Library of Congress web site. You can
expand to "full screen" zoom in on every building to find out what they were! If only there were such
a depiction for the end of the steam era!

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4104c.pm001494/?r=-0.112,-0.025,1.222,0.742,0


On 3/12/2023 11:52 AM, ted schnepf wrote:

Hello Tim,
CJ may have owned the track at the stockyards, but the main line railroads owned CJ and worked out trackage rights agreements over the various railroads to reach the stockyards directly. These same sort of agreements were used by railroads to interchange cars in large cities between none connecting carriers.
On the Burlington list a member with access to Union agreements, confirmed that the CB&Q  directly delivered livestock to the union stockyards in Chicago.

Ted

--
Sent from Outlook Email App for Android

Saturday, 11 March 2023, 04:57PM -06:00 from Tim O'Connor timboconnor@...:

Ted, it may depend on the time period? My 1941 report on the B&O's control of the Alton
includes a map showing all of the lines and yards in the Chicago area. On the north side of the
Union Stockyards is an east-west line labeled C.J. -- which I assume means Chicago Junction?
To the west is a yard labeled C.J. Ashland Ave Yard, oriented east-west. Just south of it is a
north-south yard that looks like Leavitt St (??) which is either PCC&StL (??) or B&OCT. (It's
a kinda smudgy map.) On the south side is another east-west line labeled IHB that wyes directly
into the stock yards. Parallel and just south of the IHB is a GTW line. Just to the west-southwest
of the stockyards is a curved yard that says Loomis St but no indication of ownership. This yard
appears to access the stockyards from the south. To the east of the stockyards are north-south
lines with labels Wabash Yard, C&WI 51st St Yard, PFW&C Garfield Blvd Yard. Loomis St
seems to be the yard most likely to serve the stock yards, but there are also two small east-west
yards just below the stock yards that essentially form the bottom of a "U" with the west side and
east side of the "U" comes off that C.J. east-west line. The east side (north-south) of this "U" is
the same line that comes from the IHB wye.

Hard to describe without a picture ! :-)

Anyway it looks a lot like only one or two railroads actually owned tracks into the stock yards.

On 3/11/2023 12:48 PM, ted schnepf wrote:

Hello Bill and list,
I would like to address the second part of Bills comment, about the CBQ only serving Denver stockyards directly.
I believe in Chicago that Burlington trains would directly deliver their loaded stock cars to the union stockyard.
I know Milwaukee road stock trains did run directly into the Chicago Union stockyards. I would imagine there was some trackage rights arrangement that allowed the trains to directly deliver loaded stock to the yards. I would assume all of the other Chicago railroads could also deliver their stock directly to the yards.
I have dispatcher sheets that show Sunday afternoons with many stock trains coming into Chicago on the Milwaukee road and then with a mainline crew change in bensenville running directly into the Chicago Union stock yards.
While the main line railroads delivered their stock trains directly to the stockyards, the local terminal railroad may have switched the stock cars to the unloading ramps.
I would assume there were other arrangements in places like Sioux City, Omaha and Kansas City stockyards for other direct delivery of stock trains.
Ted

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

On Mar 12, 2023, at 4:30 PM, Rod Miller <rod@...> wrote:

It would seem that because of the 24 hour rule, most stock trains would be routed directly to the stockyards. Any delay such as switching prior to arrival at the stockyards could be problematic.