Topics

coil gondola shipping early problems


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood


ed_mines
 

roof flashing?


Mont Switzer
 

Could be ends of larger coils used to stamp out car fenders and home appliances.  Coils might have been involved in a wreck.  Scrap now.

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mont;

 

For sure, scrap now!

 

This appears to be the result of a wreck, or very hard coupling, which P&WV undoubtedly had to document for claims.

 

But what I find unusual is the way they were loaded, like with no understanding on how they’d behave.  Sheesh.

 

I am assembling a presentation on RR coil loading experiences, and how the RRs evolved their practices over time, resulting in dedicated coil cars, so I am looking to these early instances for the “why”.

 

Coils misbehaving was a problem that increased with increasing size, weight, and finish quality requirements.

 

This tipping over behavior was something I am astonished to see wasn’t anticipated.

 

I’d love to see someone model that load!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Could be ends of larger coils used to stamp out car fenders and home appliances.  Coils might have been involved in a wreck.  Scrap now.

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:


Mont Switzer
 

Elden,

 

I would suspect in that era the original coils were shipped on end in closed (boxcars) cars with lots of blocking and bracing.    Enclosed cars helps prevent rust, dirt, etc. for the same reasons most coil cars of today are covered.

 

I would say several of those boxcars got dumped somewhere thus damaging all of the coils inside.  Since they had become scrap due to the alleged accident the wrecker wasn’t too particular as to how they were placed in the gons.

 

Please keep in mind this is a theory.  Too bad we cannot see the claim file.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 11:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Mont;

 

For sure, scrap now!

 

This appears to be the result of a wreck, or very hard coupling, which P&WV undoubtedly had to document for claims.

 

But what I find unusual is the way they were loaded, like with no understanding on how they’d behave.  Sheesh.

 

I am assembling a presentation on RR coil loading experiences, and how the RRs evolved their practices over time, resulting in dedicated coil cars, so I am looking to these early instances for the “why”.

 

Coils misbehaving was a problem that increased with increasing size, weight, and finish quality requirements.

 

This tipping over behavior was something I am astonished to see wasn’t anticipated.

 

I’d love to see someone model that load!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Could be ends of larger coils used to stamp out car fenders and home appliances.  Coils might have been involved in a wreck.  Scrap now.

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:


Andy Laurent
 

 

                 I would suspect in that era the original coils were shipped on end in closed (boxcars) cars with lots of blocking and bracing.    Enclosed cars helps prevent rust, dirt, etc. for the same reasons most coil cars of                   today are covered.

 

                 Mont

Tin plate coils are still shipped that way today (coils laid on end-eye to the sky, in boxcars).  The coils in these photos look like "hot bands", coils that have not been finished yet.  Knowing they will be pickled, cut, and possibly sized...they did not need to be protected from the elements.
Andy L.
Wisconsin

 


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Mont and friends,

That must have been some pretty thin stock to have fitted so many coils in those old gondolas.

I'm most familiar with much heavier coils that were shipped from USS Geneva in Utah to USS Columbia/Pittsburg (no "h") in California via the D&RGW, WP and Sacramento Northern. These coils were shipped horizontally for years uncovered in gondolas beginning in 1944 on disposable wooden cradles at first in any cars that were available. By the mid-1950s the coils moved in dedicated cars with permanent racks. Rust was apparently not a problem, as they would have moved fairly quickly to their destination. At Pittsburg the coils were cold rolled into thinner stock for automobile or appliance stamping, and even thinner for can stock (which was tinned by USS there at Pittsburg). How and where they were shipped for further processing is unknown to me, but it was likely in boxcars.

See my articles at https://www.wplives.org/sn/steel.html and https://www.wplives.org/sn/gon.html for more on this operation.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:31 AM Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

Elden,

 

I would suspect in that era the original coils were shipped on end in closed (boxcars) cars with lots of blocking and bracing.    Enclosed cars helps prevent rust, dirt, etc. for the same reasons most coil cars of today are covered.

 

I would say several of those boxcars got dumped somewhere thus damaging all of the coils inside.  Since they had become scrap due to the alleged accident the wrecker wasn’t too particular as to how they were placed in the gons.

 

Please keep in mind this is a theory.  Too bad we cannot see the claim file.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 11:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Mont;

 

For sure, scrap now!

 

This appears to be the result of a wreck, or very hard coupling, which P&WV undoubtedly had to document for claims.

 

But what I find unusual is the way they were loaded, like with no understanding on how they’d behave.  Sheesh.

 

I am assembling a presentation on RR coil loading experiences, and how the RRs evolved their practices over time, resulting in dedicated coil cars, so I am looking to these early instances for the “why”.

 

Coils misbehaving was a problem that increased with increasing size, weight, and finish quality requirements.

 

This tipping over behavior was something I am astonished to see wasn’t anticipated.

 

I’d love to see someone model that load!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Could be ends of larger coils used to stamp out car fenders and home appliances.  Coils might have been involved in a wreck.  Scrap now.

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:

  • early coil Metal_Coils_At_Avella_001_Web.jpg
  • early coil Metal_Coils_At_Avella_002_Web.jpg
  • early coil Metal_Coils_At_Rook_004_Web.jpg


Eric Hansmann
 

I wonder if these coils are for can stock.

 

BTW, the Reading gondola has an 8-1937 journal repack stencil. It’s also wearing original lettering applied shortly after the corporate name change from P&R to Reading. This photo inspired the lettering on my F&C Reading gondola.

https://i0.wp.com/designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/201705_reading_gm1.jpg

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood


O Fenton Wells
 

Good looking car Eric
Fenton

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:47 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I wonder if these coils are for can stock.

 

BTW, the Reading gondola has an 8-1937 journal repack stencil. It’s also wearing original lettering applied shortly after the corporate name change from P&R to Reading. This photo inspired the lettering on my F&C Reading gondola.

https://i0.wp.com/designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/201705_reading_gm1.jpg

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


 

Western Pacific had 29' gondolas made specifically to haul coil steel. The coils were loaded over the trucks only. They were loaded on their sides in cradles.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Andy Carlson
 

A rather simple kit bash from a P2K 52" Greenville gondola. Made in 1953 and came new with roller bearing trucks. Like others mentioned, since this was in direct service on the WP (straying off the WP only to get to Pittsburg CA's steel mill on the Sacramento Northern-a subsidary of the WP).

Western Pacific had 29' gondolas made specifically to haul coil steel. The coils were loaded over the trucks only. They were loaded on their sides in cradles.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA


_._,_.


Steve Salotti
 

My guess would be (based on Reading Gons) they could be coils produced by Carpenter Steel, located on the Reading main just West of Reading, PA.  Drive by there on a somewhat regular basis.
Steve Salotti


Jim Hayes
 

Somehow this shorty gon looks fascinating to me. I may build one.

   Jim

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 1:29 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A rather simple kit bash from a P2K 52" Greenville gondola. Made in 1953 and came new with roller bearing trucks. Like others mentioned, since this was in direct service on the WP (straying off the WP only to get to Pittsburg CA's steel mill on the Sacramento Northern-a subsidary of the WP).

Western Pacific had 29' gondolas made specifically to haul coil steel. The coils were loaded over the trucks only. They were loaded on their sides in cradles.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA


_._,_.


David
 

And on another tangent, the third pic seems to show P&WV's 1920s project to rebuild their 1905CD hoppers.

David Thompson


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Indeed.  Beautiful model.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 3:54 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Good looking car Eric

Fenton

 

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:47 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I wonder if these coils are for can stock.

 

BTW, the Reading gondola has an 8-1937 journal repack stencil. It’s also wearing original lettering applied shortly after the corporate name change from P&R to Reading. This photo inspired the lettering on my F&C Reading gondola.

https://i0.wp.com/designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/201705_reading_gm1.jpg

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Andy,

While loading over the trucks only was apparently true of 52' and 65' (yes, the latter did carry coil sometimes) gondolas in WP and D&RGW coil service, it didn't apply to the 29' series 6401-6499. The car in the attached photo is loaded down its full length, and I have a photo of another car also loaded beyond the trucks. I suspect that how many coils went into one of the gondolas depended on the size and weight of the coils.

After their 1955-1956 rebuilding, the 29' cars had two parallel ladder-like arrangements which ran the length of the car body. AFAIK, there were no other restrainers, the weight of the coils being enough to keep the load from shifting (at least under normal handling). The surviving car at the Portola museum still has its racks.

These short gondolas were not unique to the WP. Also attached are two that were photographed from Amtrak's California Zephyr at Armco Steel and Mansbach Metals, both around Ashland, Kentucky IIRC. I would be interested to know who owned these cars originally (likely from our period of interest). And no, these aren't WP survivors--the number of ribs is wrong. The Mansbach car appears to have Pullman ends. I also have an even poorer photo of another short Armco car with a slightly downward pointed side sill in the center. Anybody have ideas?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:11 PM Andy Jackson <lajrmdlr@...> wrote:
Western Pacific had 29' gondolas made specifically to haul coil steel. The coils were loaded over the trucks only. They were loaded on their sides in cradles.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA