Coins as car weights


bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
 

Tony,

For maybe for the first time in the few years I have followed this
list a topic has appeared that I am actually quite knowledgeable
about and that is health and safety. "Lead vapor", fumes, or dusts
are actually the most dangerous route of entry (inhalation) for
lead. It gets into the blood stream quite quickly and completely
through the lungs. Ingestion (eating or through the mouth) is
usually a secondary route of exposure for adults and less of the
product is absorbed into the blood stream. Ingestion is the primary
route of exposure for children whose "safe" exposure levels are about
1/5 that of an adult when using blood lead levels to measure
exposure. Children are much more susceptible to lead exposure as it
can effect brain development (it doesn't take much). Adult's brains
are pretty much developed so on average they can tolerate higher
levels of exposure without negative affect to the brain, but then the
issue becomes other organs. Target organs in adults include: Eyes,
gastrointestinal tract, central nervous system, kidneys, blood, and
gingival tissue.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0368.html is the pocket guide page
from NIOSH and gives general information about exposure levels for
adults. Translating the numbers, I personally might melt lead
outside, keeping my face away from the "pot" most of the time and
staying up wind. And I would only do it on very limited occasions as
over time blood lead levels can reduce without repeated exposures.
When handling lead sheets as I do at the modeling work bench, I make
it a habit to wash my hands just after handling leada to reduce the
chance of ingestion. I agree a certain amount of "care is needed" but
that includes vapors and dusts.

Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin, MSOS, CSP

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Garth G. Groff wrote:
I know we've disagreed about this before, and I certainly respect
your
scientific knowledge. However, my father used to melt lead tire
weights just as described. He was later diagnosed with lead
poisoning.

Handling lead with bare hands gets the oxide onto your skin,
and
may get it into your mouth or nose. I'd worry about that part, not
about the lead vapor.
Please do not think I was saying lead is harmless or that you
can
treat it cavalierly. Care is needed.
And by the way, Garth, if your father is 91 the lead must
not
have been TOO bad for him <meant in jest, of course>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, BERNARD SPINELLI <bspinelli@...> wrote:

on 8/14/07 11:48 AM, Garth G. Groff at ggg9y@... wrote:

Go out a buy a bag of lead shot #8 at any gun shop. It will last you a
lifetime & will fit in any spot on a car. Use epoxy to set the shot.
I have used curtain weights as well. These are woven over with fabric
into long "worms". Helps to keep them glued down with epoxy.

Manfred


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce D. Griffin wrote:
For maybe for the first time in the few years I have followed this list a topic has appeared that I am actually quite knowledgeable about and that is health and safety. "Lead vapor", fumes, or dusts are actually the most dangerous route of entry (inhalation) for lead.
No argument about fumes and dusts, but there just aren't vapor amounts of consequence. You can look it up. I still remember when our molten lead heat treating pots were the object of great excitement to the university "health" guys. They came by twice, having concluded the first time there was something wrong with the instruments when they measured zero lead in the air. There was none the second time either--which agrees with handbook data on vapor pressures.

Translating the numbers, I personally might melt lead outside, keeping my face away from the "pot" most of the time and staying up wind. . . When handling lead sheets as I do at the modeling work bench, I make it a habit to wash my hands just after handling leada to reduce the chance of ingestion. I agree a certain amount of "care is needed" but that includes vapors and dusts.
Good advice, which I don' believe is at odds with mine. But remember, say "fumes and dusts," not vapors. Finely divided lead oxide is indeed bad stuff.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

eric petersson wrote:
Costwise, pennies are $1.81 per pound, about 11� per oz. Nickels are
$4.54 per pound, about 28� per oz
Go to your hardware store and buy a strip of plain steel, around
3/4-inch wide and 1/8 inch thick. It's soft and cuts easily with a
hacksaw, costs about 5 cents an ounce, and works fine. Makes a nice
size weight in a single piece.

----- Original Message -----

When I read this I thought something was amiss. Metal prices have jumped dramatically in the last four years or so. (For example, stainless steel forgings that cost around $3/lb from 1995 to 2001 now go for about $8-$10/lb.) I checked the price of this stock at Lowe's tonight and the cheapest price was $1.06/ft (4 ft length). At .283 lb/cu in, a .125 x .75 x 12 carbon steel piece would weigh just over 5 ounces, making it closer to 21 cents/oz. (The plated, cold finished stuff was $1.15/ft.) Even if you could find NOS pieces at half that price, it's still no cheaper then pennies.

KL


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
When I read this I thought something was amiss. Metal prices have jumped dramatically in the last four years or so . . . At .283 lb/cu in, a .125 x .75 x 12 carbon steel piece would weigh just over 5 ounces, making it closer to 21 cents/oz. . . it's still no cheaper then pennies.
I confess, Kurt, I was going on prices several years ago--when last I bought some of that strip. Suggestion: buy some now if you want it, and in several years, it'll look like a bargain <g>.
Even if no cheaper than pennies, it's a one-piece weight. Anyway, something offends me about using coins for this purpose--even today's pennies, which are a zinc alloy with a REALLY thin coating of copper. Don't think those are copper pennies any more, guys.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Even if no cheaper than pennies, it's a one-piece weight.

KL> I could see the advantage in that. I'll have to see if thicker stock is cheaper per oz.

Anyway,
something offends me about using coins for this purpose--even today's
pennies, which are a zinc alloy with a REALLY thin coating of copper.

KL> Eh, get over it - I did. Just today I jammed two of them into a joint in my computer desk at work to stop a wobble.

KL


Philip Dove <philip.dove@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Laughlin
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 18 August 2007 03:44
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coins as car weights
If you are going to cut up a lump of metal, why not have a look at junk you've got at work or in the workshop, In my current job in a maintenance depot we throw away lots of nice little steel angles made of steel about 1/16th thick, looking around i can find loads of metal bits I could use for weights, i also salvage all the hook up wire and fine washers for truck spacing that I could wish for.
I noted someone is weighting their cars to nmraNMRA recommendations, I find this far heavier than neccessary,and with the feeble pulling power of Athearn and P"K steam locos I find the optimum weight for my cars is about the weight of an Athearn car. In O gauge some freight cars need no extra weight because of the number of white metal components.
Regards Philip Dove