Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
Hi Chuck and List Members,
That is a pretty tall request, Chuck!
At a minimum, paint technology and chemistry changed enormously between 'the 19-teens' until 'those years on into the time when photography could show color'. With a change of paint technology would come a change in color, perhaps slight at first and incremental over the years, and certainly changes in paint fade and weathering characteristics.
It might be more fruitful if you have a specific road you are
interested in, to focus the question around that. For example,
there has been extensive research and discussion regarding what is
an appropriate color to use for the PRR in the 1920s? The 1940s?
The 1960s? And formulations for these era-specific PRR colors have
been developed.
Sincerely
Claus Schlund
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.I'm with Claus. I think this is a very fraught assumption. And, the example with the PRR research (which only goes back to the 1930s IIRC) serves to illustrate this.
I model 1934, and these days I mostly choose FCCs that tickle my fancy. I'm still waiting for bullet-proof evidence as to the exact late-920s color(s) for any road of interest to me.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads
stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
I have assisted in compiling this document. While it is called the 19th century paint color compendium, we have strayed into the 20th century as research provides information.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jbXGfg9V3cY0awKamkrwM2JlLSQepapDwU9A3Dx43-M/edit
There is a second document specifically covering private owner cars:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ntcnu71PGg2R6ojkoH2ih7sCqGROoem38V1Rra6VE-E/edit
They are mirrored on the Pacificng.org wiki, which is still a work in progress but is also more up-to-date than the google doc.
http://pacificng.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index
The question is indeed a tall order, in fact practically impossible to answer. The document attached runs up to 477 pages, and if it included all the information I've been adding to the pacifcng mirror then it would be upwards towards 600+ pages, and there are a lot of questions that we have yet to find answers to. Hopefully these resources will be helpful though.
Josh Bernhard
Nelson,
I had forgotten about the RPCyc table. Thanks for sharing it, although little seems to reflect pre-WW2 applications.
FYI, the other file does not include freight car paint colors.
Eric Hansmann
Media, PA
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
It does indeed include freight car paint colors, but they are prototype colors using prototype paints mostly from Dupont. To match model paints, you need to see the Dupont color chips. On page two you will see list of sections included in the document – Diesel & Passenger Cars, Pullman Company, Steam, Freight Cars, and Structures.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Nelson,
I had forgotten about the RPCyc table. Thanks for sharing it, although little seems to reflect pre-WW2 applications.
FYI, the other file does not include freight car paint colors.
Eric Hansmann
Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads
stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
I did notice that in the table of contents but I guess I blew right by the listings. I was expecting more freight car data. Thanks for pointing it out.
Eric Hansmann
Media, PA
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 4:38 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
It does indeed include freight car paint colors, but they are prototype colors using prototype paints mostly from Dupont. To match model paints, you need to see the Dupont color chips. On page two you will see list of sections included in the document – Diesel & Passenger Cars, Pullman Company, Steam, Freight Cars, and Structures.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Nelson,
I had forgotten about the RPCyc table. Thanks for sharing it, although little seems to reflect pre-WW2 applications.
FYI, the other file does not include freight car paint colors.
Eric Hansmann
Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL
I have assisted in compiling this document. While it is called the 19th century paint color compendium, we have strayed into the 20th century as research provides information.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jbXGfg9V3cY0awKamkrwM2JlLSQepapDwU9A3Dx43-M/edit
There is a second document specifically covering private owner cars:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ntcnu71PGg2R6ojkoH2ih7sCqGROoem38V1Rra6VE-E/edit
They are mirrored on the Pacificng.org wiki, which is still a work in progress but is also more up-to-date than the google doc.
http://pacificng.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index
The question is indeed a tall order, in fact practically impossible to answer. The document attached runs up to 477 pages, and if it included all the information I've been adding to the pacifcng mirror then it would be upwards towards 600+ pages, and there are a lot of questions that we have yet to find answers to. Hopefully these resources will be helpful though.
Josh Bernhard
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 8:26:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
I have assisted in compiling this document. While it is called the 19th century paint color compendium, we have strayed into the 20th century as research provides information.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jbXGfg9V3cY0awKamkrwM2JlLSQepapDwU9A3Dx43-M/edit
There is a second document specifically covering private owner cars:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ntcnu71PGg2R6ojkoH2ih7sCqGROoem38V1Rra6VE-E/edit
They are mirrored on the Pacificng.org wiki, which is still a work in progress but is also more up-to-date than the google doc.
http://pacificng.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index
The question is indeed a tall order, in fact practically impossible to answer. The document attached runs up to 477 pages, and if it included all the information I've been adding to the pacifcng mirror then it would be upwards towards 600+ pages,
and there are a lot of questions that we have yet to find answers to. Hopefully these resources will be helpful though.
Josh Bernhard
https://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/color/index.php
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34
Randy Hees
Charles.
Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually). Now, before you snort in derision and suggest I might need more ventilation at my modeling bench… this approach has been seriously proposed by at least one modeler. I have not heard if they even managed to execute it, as it would be potentially very challenging.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "bounce+13731+198541+676026+2098347@groups.io" <bounce+13731+198541+676026+2098347@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 1:09 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. |
Thanks everyone for your responses....quite a lot of info to peruse! The central problem, of course, is that those of us who choose to model a period before there was color photography faithful to the subjects photographed the world appeared as a black and white one. Although, as you say, there may not be data specific to my modeling period I think I can come up with some plausible color choices using the info you provided.
On Jan 24, 2023, at 12:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:Charles.Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually). Now, before you snort in derision and suggest I might need more ventilation at my modeling bench… this approach has been seriously proposed by at least one modeler. I have not heard if they even managed to execute it, as it would be potentially very challenging.Regards,BruceBruce SmithAuburn, ALFrom: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "bounce+13731+198541+676026+2098347@groups.io" <bounce+13731+198541+676026+2098347@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 1:09 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Thanks everyone for your responses....quite a lot of info to peruse! The central problem, of course, is that those of us who choose to model a period before there was color photography faithful to the subjects photographed the world appeared as a black and white one. Although, as you say, there may not be data specific to my modeling period I think I can come up with some plausible color choices using the info you provided.
Bruce Smith wrote:Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually). Now, before you snort in derision and suggest I might need more ventilation at my modeling bench… this approach has been seriously proposed by at least one modeler. I have not heard if they even managed to execute it, as it would be potentially very challenging.
Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually).Well, the late Larry Jackman, who used to post on this list, insisted that before the thirties there was no color in the world, every thing was shades of gray, and there was a state park someplace in Kansas that preserved a bit of this. :-)
Dennis Storzek