Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
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Charles Greene
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.
Chuck Greene St. Charles, IL |
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Chuck and List Members,
That is a pretty tall request, Chuck!
At a minimum, paint technology and chemistry changed enormously between 'the 19-teens' until 'those years on into the time when photography could show color'. With a change of paint technology would come a change in color, perhaps slight at first and incremental over the years, and certainly changes in paint fade and weathering characteristics.
It might be more fruitful if you have a specific road you are
interested in, to focus the question around that. For example,
there has been extensive research and discussion regarding what is
an appropriate color to use for the PRR in the 1920s? The 1940s?
The 1960s? And formulations for these era-specific PRR colors have
been developed.
Sincerely
Claus Schlund
On 23-Jan-23 13:58, Charles Greene
wrote:
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color. |
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Dave Parker
On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 10:58 AM, Charles Greene wrote:
but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color.I'm with Claus. I think this is a very fraught assumption. And, the example with the PRR research (which only goes back to the 1930s IIRC) serves to illustrate this. I model 1934, and these days I mostly choose FCCs that tickle my fancy. I'm still waiting for bullet-proof evidence as to the exact late-920s color(s) for any road of interest to me. -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA |
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Nelson Moyer
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:58 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads
stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color. |
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Thanks Nelson. I have that copy but forgot I had it Hope you are doing well. Fenton On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 3:10 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
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Josh
I have assisted in compiling this document. While it is called the 19th century paint color compendium, we have strayed into the 20th century as research provides information. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jbXGfg9V3cY0awKamkrwM2JlLSQepapDwU9A3Dx43-M/edit http://pacificng.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index
Josh Bernhard |
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Eric Hansmann
Nelson,
I had forgotten about the RPCyc table. Thanks for sharing it, although little seems to reflect pre-WW2 applications.
FYI, the other file does not include freight car paint colors.
Eric Hansmann Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:11 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color. |
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Nelson Moyer
It does indeed include freight car paint colors, but they are prototype colors using prototype paints mostly from Dupont. To match model paints, you need to see the Dupont color chips. On page two you will see list of sections included in the document – Diesel & Passenger Cars, Pullman Company, Steam, Freight Cars, and Structures.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 3:01 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Nelson,
I had forgotten about the RPCyc table. Thanks for sharing it, although little seems to reflect pre-WW2 applications.
FYI, the other file does not include freight car paint colors.
Eric Hansmann Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads
stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color. |
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Eric Hansmann
I did notice that in the table of contents but I guess I blew right by the listings. I was expecting more freight car data. Thanks for pointing it out.
Eric Hansmann Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 4:38 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
It does indeed include freight car paint colors, but they are prototype colors using prototype paints mostly from Dupont. To match model paints, you need to see the Dupont color chips. On page two you will see list of sections included in the document – Diesel & Passenger Cars, Pullman Company, Steam, Freight Cars, and Structures.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Nelson,
I had forgotten about the RPCyc table. Thanks for sharing it, although little seems to reflect pre-WW2 applications.
FYI, the other file does not include freight car paint colors.
Eric Hansmann Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
RPC Vol. 3 has a table of freight car colors with roads grouped by color from oxide to dark brown. I attached a scan. If you want prototype freight car paints look at the attached Excel file. You may wish to search online for a document presenting research on freight car paint colors in the 19th century, which may be applicable to the early years of the 20th century.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Greene
Anybody know if there is a source/sources either online or print showing the colors roads used for their freight cars in the 19-teens through the 1920s? I realize there wasn't color photography in that period, but I think (?) most roads stayed with the colors used in those years on into the time when photography could show color. |
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Hi Josh - i was not able to open the Pacificng site. Is there a trick to it?
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Rob On Jan 23, 2023, at 12:54 PM, Josh <segorailroadmodels@...> wrote: I have assisted in compiling this document. While it is called the 19th century paint color compendium, we have strayed into the 20th century as research provides information. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jbXGfg9V3cY0awKamkrwM2JlLSQepapDwU9A3Dx43-M/edit http://pacificng.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index Josh Bernhard |
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Alex Schneider
Is there a recommendation for New Haven freight cars in the Forties?
Thanks
Alex Schneider From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 8:26:01 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad Hi Josh - i was not able to open the Pacificng site. Is there a trick to it?
Rob
On Jan 23, 2023, at 12:54 PM, Josh <segorailroadmodels@...> wrote:
I have assisted in compiling this document. While it is called the 19th century paint color compendium, we have strayed into the 20th century as research provides information. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jbXGfg9V3cY0awKamkrwM2JlLSQepapDwU9A3Dx43-M/edit http://pacificng.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index Josh Bernhard |
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Philip Dove
From what l have seen of early colour photography l wouldn't want to use it for matching colour. The colour films were very slow so pictures often turn out dark. As for colorized Black and white if l beleive what l saw. Then GI helmets were painted black during the Second world War, and many bright red buses were actually a chocolate colour. |
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404 error on link, but found this by going to root:
https://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/color/index.php -- ____________________________ David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34 |
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Randy Hees
The Pacificng wiki site is currently down... Andrew will need to reinstall the softwear, so it will be a few days...
Randy Hees |
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Charles Greene
Thanks everyone for your responses....quite a lot of info to peruse! The central problem, of course, is that those of us who choose to model a period before there was color photography faithful to the subjects photographed the world appeared as a black and white one. Although, as you say, there may not be data specific to my modeling period I think I can come up with some plausible color choices using the info you provided.
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Randy Hees
Alternate link... for Pacificng article on paint colors http://www.pacificng.com/w/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index
Randy Hees |
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Charles.
Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually). Now, before you snort in derision and suggest I might need more ventilation at my modeling bench… this approach has been seriously proposed by at least one modeler. I have not heard if they even managed to execute it, as it would be potentially very challenging.
Regards, Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "bounce+13731+198541+676026+2098347@groups.io" <bounce+13731+198541+676026+2098347@groups.io>
Thanks everyone for your responses....quite a lot of info to peruse! The central problem, of course, is that those of us who choose to model a period before there was color photography faithful to the subjects photographed the world appeared as a black and white one. Although, as you say, there may not be data specific to my modeling period I think I can come up with some plausible color choices using the info you provided. |
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Bill Keene
Architects … before the current high tech tools were common … would model their concepts in white models with dried plant material providing the ‘growies’.
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I must confess that i have thought about modeling the railroad rolling stock, railroad structures, and right of way with colors and textures as we currently do. Then the modeled world being all in white/off white/light tans and grays with dried plant materials … Baby’s Breath, shrub clippings, etc. … for everything that was non-railroad scenery. Have not yet done this but might give it a try on the 2’x 8’ bit of benchwork that is stored out in the garage. 🥴🤪😁 Cheers, Bill Keene Irvine, CA
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Tony Thompson
Years ago, a small module done this way was exhibited at an NMRA regional contest, and maybe at the National the same year. I can’t remember the modeler or the year. Maybe someone on the list will remember more specifics. |
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Dennis Storzek
Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually).Well, the late Larry Jackman, who used to post on this list, insisted that before the thirties there was no color in the world, every thing was shades of gray, and there was a state park someplace in Kansas that preserved a bit of this. :-) Dennis Storzek |
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