Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
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Haha he must have been a Calvin & Hobbes fan ! :-D On 1/24/2023 5:16 PM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io wrote: Of course, you could always just model in black and white (grey tones actually).Well, the late Larry Jackman, who used to post on this list, insisted that before the thirties there was no color in the world, every thing was shades of gray, and there was a state park someplace in Kansas that preserved a bit of this. :-) --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Charles,
There is one "this is how it worked" relative to paint ... before ... color film. And that is that many (dare I say "most"?) RRs mixed their own "box car red", a batch at a time, in the paint shop ... by mixing linseed oil with pigment (usually some form/from some source). And, of course, the local shop didn't always do things the same way every time or between different shops. Yes, a lot of paint was purchased pre-mixed - but even there the colors varied in those early years (i.e. before color film - and even well beyond the arrival of color film).. Soooo - was the freight car reddish brown "pretty much the same for the same RR". Yes, it was. Because the RRs tended to buy from their sources (mixed or not) and those sources tended to provide consistent product. And yes, the Pennsy color is different ("more red") than the color for the SP ("more brown" - expecially when compared to Pennsy freight car reddish brown). Ad infinitum. I'm lucky - I weather everything. And I don't use the exact same process for weathering on every car (not even the same mixes of weathering colors). My goal is simple - if you look at a yard full of cars they will look "all the same" - but when you look at individual cars (and especially when you compare two cars side-by-side) you will see differences. Some cars get little more than a light dusting coat - some are heavily weathered ... and everything in between. - Jim in the PNW |
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There is a layout in California that is done in black & white. It was on tour for the 2019 NMRA convention in Sacramento. It was a layout based on the Hetch Hetchy railroad. Here is Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CHGfxQAD0
Doug Harding https://www.facebook.com/douglas.harding.3156/ Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad
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Eric Hansmann
I think the “mixing local pigment with linseed oil” has been stated too frequently. I feel it is a generalization and verges on hobby myth.
I will admit this may have been a regular process on some railroads. It may have also been more common earlier in the 19th Century. But our group focus is 1900-1960. A cursory look at many freight car diagram pages will show paint manufacturer call outs for DuPont, Glidden, Sherwin-Williams, and other brands.
In reviewing a few entries on the Pacific NG Historic Paint Color Index, I note a few surprises. I’ve focused on lines with large freight car fleets. Here’s a link to the Index. http://www.pacificng.com/w/index.php?title=Historic_Railroad_Paint_Color_Index
Under the AT&SF link, an 1881 entry notes stock cars painted with "Winters Mineral Paint."
Under the B&O, it is noted in 1851 the B&O used “Blake’s Patent Ohio Fire-Proof Paint” since 1850.
Under the CB&Q, it is noted in 1880 that grain and merchandise cars painted brown, using either Parker's Cement or Prince's Mineral Paint.
Under the NYC&HR, an 1892 note indicates gondolas are painted with Prince's Metallic Brown with white lettering and glossy black iron work including "the heads of bolts and coach screws." Trucks are mineral brown.
Under the Union Pacific, an 1876 entry notes Rawlin's Metallic Paint Company advertises that Union Pacific and the Pacific Mail Steamship Company both use their product.
I also see many lines painted their 1800s freight cars in white, straw, green, and blue colors. I don’t see these base pigments as being widely available to mix homemade paints.
Again, producing freight car color paint may have been a regular process on some railroads. I’ve heard the Pennsy made their own from bricks crushed at a ball mill west of Altoona, but I’ve not heard how long that lasted. Plus, it’s one railroad, albeit a large one. I don’t think we should “cover the world” with a general statement, especially as we focus on the 1900-1960 decades.
I’m open to corrections and additional details.
Eric Hansmann Media, PA
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 7:52 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Colors by Freight Car Type by Railroad
Charles, |
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Chris Barkan
Eric's comment about "other" freight car colors reminded me of this 1910 Autochrome photo showing several freight cars on a wharf in Boston. Although three of them are some shade of brown, the FtDDM&S car on the left clearly is not. Here is the original link:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/91981316@N06/50861430552/ "Boston, MA ca 1910. True color Autochrome Plate. In 1907 the Lumiere Bros. brought the first photographic full color process to the masses. At the time a single 3.25 in. X 3.25 in plate with processing cost the equivalent of $34" It would be great to find some other very early color photos of freight cars but so far this is the earliest I have seen. FYI, this photo is part of a large album of interesting maps, drawings & photos of old Boston, some of them rail related. https://www.flickr.com/photos/91981316@N06/albums/72157645694033047 -- Chris Barkan Deerfield, MA 
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Richard Wilkens
Years ago I picked up a reprint of Union Pacific Common Standard CS-22 which covered paint. In this it referred to color No. 11 Metallic Paint as to be used to paint wood cabooses, automobile cars, box cars and stock cars. Under this color it was to be provided as a pigment paste and shipped in barrels and 100 pound kegs. The composition of the pigment was sesquioxide of iron (43% by weight), approved inert material (54% by weight) and carbonate of lime (3% by weight). When mixed the paint was to consist of pigment (70% by weight) and vehicle (pure raw linseed oil) (30% by weight). This was in effect as of January 20, 1923. Unfortunately no mention of who or where was making the pigment.
Years ago I contacted a pigment supplier while working on the restoration of several Northern Pacific single sheathed box cars and they said they had around 15 different shades of iron oxides and the color differences were due to where the iron oxide was obtained. Richard Wilkens |
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Philip Dove
We seem to assume that the colour remains the same once it is applied. Paints can fade or get discoloured with dust, dirt or chemical components of pollution. Photos even if they show colour record the lighting conditions at the time of the photograph, but the photo color can deteriorate. I am English l used to work in the retail division of a small company making paints and primers. My boss who started with the company in 1949 remembered mixing drums of lead paste with boiled linseed oil and driers to make lead primers. White which was a slightly cream compared with modern whites. Red lead was always bright orange in my experience, whether as red lead primer in the 1970s or a powder in the laborotory at school. Paint made in two different places on the London North Eastern Railway in the 1920s was consistently very slightly different in shade even though made to the same recipe. |
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Charles Greene
Chris,
Remarkable! I'd never heard of the autochrome process. That 1910 harbor shot showing the boxcars on the wharf gets very close to my modeling period. Thanks for posting! Chuck Greene St. Charles, IL |
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I'm presuming "sesqioxide of iron" means a 1.5 to 1 ratio (FeO1.5) just as sesquicentennial means 1.5*100 years. If so, then a more appropriate chemical formula would be Fe2O3, otherwise known as hematite. The use of that name also suggests that it was a chemical product, not a natural product, which means it likely had less variability than natural Fe oxides do (which are almost always a mix of hematite and various iron oxide-hydroxide minerals.) I'm sure there was still variation, but when powdered, pure hematite is a very characteristic brick-red color, a fact often used to identify hematite in the field. So I would expect those UP cars to have been something on the brick red/marroon side, more than the umber/ochre side.
Dave Smith, who used to teach mineralogy, including the iron oxides ;-) |
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Dave Parker
Based on my reading, I don't think there was widespread use of synthetic Fe oxyhydroxides (the term I was taught in mineralogy) until the 1930s at least. The UP publication that Richard cites is from 1923 at which time, I would assume, that the vast majority of Fe oxides paints were still made from natural deposits. Given the level of sophistication of understanding such minerals at that time, I wouldn't attach too much significance to the use of the term "hematite". It could have meant a lot of things, and a lot of colors, much like "limonite".
YMMV, but that's my take -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA |
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Dennis Storzek
I also see many lines painted their 1800s freight cars in white, straw, green, and blue colors. I don’t see these base pigments as being widely available to mix homemade paints.White was commonly available as white lead which, as someone pointed out, was a warmer color than the titanium dioxide based whites we're used to seeing today. Mixed with lampblack for grays. Straw would be based on ocher, which is another of the many oxides of iron. Pale green could be made by tinting white lead with an oxide of copper, likewise blues can be derived from oxides of cobalt. As to quality control, I recall seeing a Pennsylvania Railroad instruction for inspecting new lots of dry oxide pigment; the existing and new powders were to be poured as small piles and pushed together. If there was a discernible line in the color, the new batch was not to be accepted. Dennis Storzek |
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