Actually, you only need 8 car and four must be scratchbuilt. Craftsman kits
(wood or resin) count. The AP chair who told you this must not know how to
use a computer. The requirements are clearly delineated on the NMRA web
site.

Nelson

Mike Fleming writes:

"I am not as familiar with the RPM movement but what is its goal, to encourage the modeler to improve his skills."

I'm not so sure of that. If it were I guess I'd be trying out different paints which require different painting skills, scratch building cars and structures using different materials etc. No, to me the objective is simply to "produce" models of real things...be they locomotives, cars, structures, trees, rock formations etc that fit into my Sherman Hill layout. Usually I am able to purchase a kit...which I might modify...or even a RTR brass or plastic loco but even then I might need to modify it to improve its accuracy. By necessity some times I have to use a new technique but that is not the objective.

Mike Brock

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:44:21 -0500, Nelson Moyer wrote

Having just completed the requirements for MMR in just under two years, I
can attest to the fact that learning new skills is a major part of the
process, as it was intended to be.

I don't feel that I'm too old to learn new skills, and in fact if I am to build a layout
it's going to be essential. But because I've put most of my effort into model building,
I lack in other areas. I've built some modest layouts and laid some track, even some
handlaying, but I'm very weak at scenery and I will require assistance for my layout
design simply because I need to get going on it before I'm too hold to hold a throttle,
and I just don't have the time to learn all the aspects of layout design. Several LDSIG
members have offered their assistance when I'm ready, which is greatly appreciated. And
they have been more than willing to assist me an achieving my goals, rather than selling
me on any particular LD philosophy.

Also being married to a woman who has a wonderful eye for crafts and colors will be a
huge asset. She has weathered one freight car - from a photo, using her own choice of
materials, and is every bit my equal in that regard, and I've been doing it for 35
years. But in other areas, I'm simply going to have to seek direct assistance. Some of
it very basic, like the basement finishing work I have to complete. I can frame, I can
wire, I can hang lights, and put up vertical drywall but I will not do a ceiling - that
gets jobbed out. For the layout itself, I may end up bartering for some services -
build some rolling stock for someone in exchange for a structure, or some scenic
detailing.

I didn't start out in the hobby to be a specialist, but things just sort of turned out
that way. As a kid I had neither the space, skill, nor money to build a dream layout so
I concentrated on building models, eventually graduating to prototype modeling which was
a revelation of the highest order. And in my 20s and 30s I had modest space available
but in terms of a layout, I was building a big modular, large radius test track to run
my stuff on, not my dream layout. Next thing you know, I've finally got a place to
build and I'm 50-mumble years old, and every time I make a dent in things something
comes along to derail the process... like this little 4th of July surprise hospital
stay. I feel ok now but wearing a PICC line on my left arm for at least 3 more weeks,
so no heavy dirty work and guess what is first in line needing to be done? So I'm back
at the bench building freight cars... again.

Andy

Mike,
I need to get you together with one of the guys here is has just started building benchwork for his Sherman Hill layout. He built a building on his property to house it.


Mike Fleming
Superintendent, Bluff City Div. SER, NMRA
President Emeritus, Memphis Society of Model Railroaders
Vice President, Memphis Railroad and Trolley Museum Model Railroad Club, a 100% NMRA Member Club

On Jul 14, 2011, at 2:15 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

5.1. Re: Contests (was: NMRA Sacramento)
Posted by: "mike brock" brockm@... mb8444
Date: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:23 am ((PDT))

Kurt Laughlin asks:

That's true Mike, but how does that relate to liking or disliking model
contests?

I'm not sure the issue is like or dislike but obviously from the messages
some like them, some don't. I can take them or leave them although my
experiences as a judge and contest "worker" indicate negative results. There
are several reasons why we don't conduct conduct contests at Prototype Rails
and the negative result is only one. What has [ I think ] not been mentioned
is the significant amount of work involved in conducting a contest. At the
last NMRA SSR convention there were about 15 models entered. Judging began
at about 1 PM and was not completed until about 5PM. The contest management
people could handle that number of models but not 100. At Prototype Rails
2011 we had over 1000 models displayed. Obviously 1000 would not have been
entered in a contest but what if 300 had been? First, we could never have
even got them entered. Contests IMO are simply impractical for an RPM meet.
The bottom line, however, is that a contest generates competition....some
compare such a contest to scoring as in football or baseball. I have not
noted that players or fans of such teams are great friends of fans and
players of other teams. Contests tend to separate rather than join.

This past January was my first schlep down I-95 to Cocoa Beach. As Mike notes, a heck of a lot of models. The fact that it wasn't a formal 'contest' with ribbons and best of breed awards etc didn't mean the modeling and clinics weren't heavy duty. They were. And they were great. I picked up knowledge I've never heard from local club guys here in the Raleigh/Durham area. I saw great modeling of Penn Central and other more modern prototypes that never seem to appear in the NMRA contests I've seen. And despite being heavy duty and intense, the atmosphere was collegial...no sense of any kind of one-upmanship in any way.

I'll be back there next year...



Craig Zeni

Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

Marty--

I have five or six bashed STMFC's and two bashed loco's that have all been awarded NMRA Merit Awards--but not in the eyes of that official, eh? Not to mention that NMRA's Master Builder Cars requires four of eight models to be scratched and four of the eight must have been awarded Merit Awards--in conflict with what that gent told you.

Steve Lucas.

When I first try to show one of my models at a RPM meet ( San Jose or Kansas City , do not remember ) , I was told that I was at the wrong place , that I should go to the NMRA contest.

It was a 1940 , Brazilian prototype , baggage -mail - live stock car in O scale meter gauge ; all scratch with working brakes . The model got first place in Portland ,OR in 1994 earning 121 points .

My last NMRA convention was 2002 .

We can take good things from all meetings , RPM , NMRA,......

What I think that NMRA needs is to find a way to make the contestants talk about the technics they used to make the models , share the knowledge.

Let's make freight cars !

Marcelo Lordeiro


From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:59 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Contests (was: NMRA Sacramento)



Mike Fleming wrote:

"The NMRA model contests have had and still have a purpose, and I find it very
distasteful that many of you are trashing it. I would also find it distasteful
on an NMRA group if they were trashing an RPM model displays."

Just as many of us in the Prototype Modelers movement found it distasteful to be
treated as the enemy during the late 1980s, or to be accused of runing the hobby
multiple times since then (as they were buying quality RTR by the armload), or
to have shouted in my face "DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH" during an NMRA national.

Point a finger, and four point back at you.

Ben Hom

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:40:16 -0300, Marcelo Lordeiro wrote

When I first try to show one of my models at a RPM meet ( San Jose or Kansas
City , do not remember ) , I was told that I was at the wrong place , that I
should go to the NMRA contest.

I wonder who told you that? I was almost by myself monitoring the RPM room in KC in
1998 for a lot of the time - me, and Reg Neale, and I'm quite certain neither of us
would have told you to go away. If you weren't specifically looking for the contest, or
NMRA merit judging, I can't picture why anyone would have told you to go to the
contest... unless perhaps someone thought your South American prototype was actually
freelanced for some reason. Strange.

Andy

Marcelo Lordeiro wrote:
"When I first try to show one of my models at a RPM meet (San Jose or Kansas
City, do not remember) , I was told that I was at the wrong place, that I should
go to the NMRA contest."


Andy Harman replied:
"I wonder who told you that? I was almost by myself monitoring the RPM room in
KC in 1998 for a lot of the time - me, and Reg Neale, and I'm quite certain
neither
of us would have told you to go away. If you weren't specifically looking for
the
contest, or NMRA merit judging, I can't picture why anyone would have told you
to go to the contest... unless perhaps someone thought your South American
prototype was actually freelanced for some reason. Strange."

I remember this.  If I recall correctly, this was a striking model, and someone
noted that it would have an excellent chance to place in the model contest.  I
don't believe that Marcelo was kicked out of the RPM room so much as the
recommendation being made that he had a shot at doing well in the contest.

Unfortunately, things appear to have been lost in translation.


Ben Hom

I have had some interesting comments made about my models in RPM over the years. My
first time ever (1995), I just happened to have a model of the exact same item as
another guy - same number, everything. He had a photo, I didn't. Actually I did, but
didn't bring it to the meet. Someone else said I should have paid more attention to my
prototype photo because I had a (very small) decal in the wrong place. I later noticed
that the other guy had the completely wrong trucks on his model - in spite of the fact
that it had come with the correct trucks to begin with... it's always interesting when
more than one person shows up with the exact same prototype. And not as unusual as one
might think. Many pieces of rolling stock have only a few quality photos available, and
odds are anyone building that thing is going to pick one of the numbers that is published.

Andy

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:33:33 -0400, Craig Zeni wrote

club guys here in the Raleigh/Durham area. I saw great modeling of
Penn Central and other more modern prototypes that never seem to
appear in the NMRA contests I've seen. And despite being heavy duty
and intense, the atmosphere was collegial...no sense of any kind of
one-upmanship in any way.

I'll be back there next year...

Hope to see you there again... this January I got to scratch Craig off the list of
"people I've known on line for half my life but never met in person". The list grows a
little shorter every year. Sadly a few (like Fred Dabney) passed away while still on
the list.

Andy

I hope to see you guys next year in Cocoa Beach and will bring the model.

Marcelo


From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Contests (was: NMRA Sacramento)



Marcelo Lordeiro wrote:
"When I first try to show one of my models at a RPM meet (San Jose or Kansas
City, do not remember) , I was told that I was at the wrong place, that I should
go to the NMRA contest."

Andy Harman replied:
"I wonder who told you that? I was almost by myself monitoring the RPM room in
KC in 1998 for a lot of the time - me, and Reg Neale, and I'm quite certain
neither
of us would have told you to go away. If you weren't specifically looking for
the
contest, or NMRA merit judging, I can't picture why anyone would have told you
to go to the contest... unless perhaps someone thought your South American
prototype was actually freelanced for some reason. Strange."

I remember this. If I recall correctly, this was a striking model, and someone
noted that it would have an excellent chance to place in the model contest. I
don't believe that Marcelo was kicked out of the RPM room so much as the
recommendation being made that he had a shot at doing well in the contest.

Unfortunately, things appear to have been lost in translation.

Ben Hom

He was quite adamant about it - and even wrote an article he planned to send to the Regional newsletter outlining the cars certificate requirement. That hasn't shown up in print - perhaps the regional chair corrected him?

Problem - from my point of view - was I could make him look bad by correcting him - and going over his head - but then HE would be judging me for the other certificates.

It's just easier to give up and go the RPM meets . . .

Andy,

For years Bob Kosic and the members of Midwest Mod-U-Trak have set up and monitored (locking, unlocking and making sure that during the day and evening a watchful eye is always in the display room) the "display" area at Naperville/Lisle. Never in all the meets that I have participated in has anybody been turned away. For years we have tried to gain more space for model displays and in last years with Martin moving his sales room down near the registration desk area we gained an additional room for displays. Again last year Mod-U-Trak under the new show sponsorship oversaw the operation of the display area. All models are displayed on a "space available," " first come, first choice of space." Again, we at Naperville openly welcome all modelers to display. "Come one, come all". To the best of my knowledge, we will again this year work with the show sponsor to monitor the room. For the past few years we had been promised an O-Scale modular layout for display, but they never came through. Then Bob convinced Martin to allow the N-Scale group to display. Good move by Martin mirrored by the new show sponsors.

Later, Dave Sarther Tucson, AZ
sartherdj@...

I'm reminded of a layout tour in the mid-1960s in the Garden State Division. One guy was very nice and mild-mannered. Never tooted his own horn. When we got to his layout our jaws just dropped. John Allen quality and quantity with day-into-night lighting, a stern wheeler that ran on hidden track in actual water, most equipment completely scratch built, etc. On the spot we offered to judge his models for achievement certificates, assuring him that he had enough for MMR except for Association Volunteer. He declined. Shortly afterward his wife divorced him and he lost almost everything. But he moved to New Hampshire where he totally rebuilt it and then built an SN3 layout of the same quality. After his death there was one photo printed in MR. I took some photos in NH. But where did I put them? - Al Westerfield

That of course, doesn't align with the NMRA AP requirements, but I've lost
interest in fighting with these guys about their own rules.



I look at contest pretty much the same way-just like submitting photos to
magazines like Trains. That's one of the reasons I took about 10 years off
from the NMRA. My job involves politics all day, I don't need that in my
hobby too.



Pat Wilkinson

Hi, Marcelo, You say:

I hope to see you guys next year in Cocoa Beach and will bring the model.

Now that's a plan. I look forward to seeing it.

Mike Brock

Posted by: "Joel Holmes" lehighvalley@... joeloh3
Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:46 am (PDT)

How does one get judged for NMRA achievement programs?

Joel Holmes

Several ways.

Enter in an NMRA contest, score the require number of points (87.5)

Arrange for it to be judged just for the Merit Award and not the contest, can be done by the same group that does the contest judging at a convention.

Arrange for an in home or other location judging of models - perhaps at the same time they are doing Scenery, Electrical, etc.

Howard Garner
Prototype modeler, NMRA life member and sometime judge at regional and national conventions

Most, i.e. most all of the fine modelers that I know, and have known, earn their high respect the old fashioned way by the quality of their modeling and their models, not by the winning of a bestowed tin star by the NMRA; or insisting or allowing that that same title be appended to the end of their name; or in one recent case the insistence that the person be so addressed in correspondence as to recognize his exalted position! Wow!

I do know a lot of very fine critical modelers. For just about all of them, achievement awards, including MMR, are absolutely irrelevant to the quality of work that they do, or their ability to perform same.

I do admire and respect the work of a number of modelers that have been awarded the MMR, but that is because these particular modelers have allowed their fine work to amply speak for itself, thus earning far more honest approbation by true peers than any title can possibly bestow.

In the interests of decorum, respect for fellow listers and their families, and the fervent wish to stay on the good side of our moderator, I will now withhold my real thoughts on this subject.

Denny








Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Hi Denny,

How does your rant relate to the tin star conferred upon you by the medical
school you attended and the initials behind your name at the bottom of your
email? What's the difference between signing MD and MMR; initials are
initials. Most doctoral level professions I know (and I'm one too) only use
their titles professionally, not in a social or hobby context. I bet you're
also board certified, which is akin to achieving MMR; )

Nelson