Topics

Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar


Andy Carlson
 

Hi folks-

Years ago, after discovering one of these Cotton Belt USRA Clone DS double door rebuilds in the Henderson box car book, I made a scale drawing. The cars seem to have been in the 46000 series of  the SSW. I have an HO model I built of this car about 23 years ago which I would like to update. I never knew what power brake brand was used. I used a Ajax back then.

The rebuilds besides reusing the original ends (with mods) also reused the fishbelly USRA style of underframe. With a modified rectangular panel roof and noticeable side sill mods, I think this is a fine looking rebuilt car. The pair of pre-war Youngstown doors and riveted sides work well together for coolness.


Inline image

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service.

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Ed Hawkins
 



On Oct 23, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service. 

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson

Andy,
The SSW diagram for 46000-46199 denotes the following info.

1. Original cars built in 1924-1925 by Mount Vernon Car Manufacturing Co. 
2. Steel sides applied by SSW 1936-1937
3. Roof raised & steel roof applied by SSW 1939
4. Auxiliary doors closed by SSW 1954 (7’-4 1/4” clear opening after aux. doors were fixed)
5. Steel roofs - Murphy (SREM Co.)
6. Steel ends - Union Metal Products Co.
7. Running boards - Apex
8. Side doors - Camel (Youngstown)
9. Hand brakes - AAR approved
10. Trucks - Scullin spring plankless (photo appears to be Andrews with spring planks)
11. Nailable Steel Floor the width of the doorway

The Murphy roof is interesting as the end sheets closest to the ends are depressed - what appears to be several inches lower than the 10 intermediate roof sheets. 

Regarding the hand brakes, all I have to go by is an outstanding in-service photo of SSW 46049, Col. Chet McCoid, 1-15-55, Calexico, California, Bob’s Photo (neg. code FSSW8). This particular car was built 4-24. Stencils do not specify a rebuild date. It’s a fresh repainted car 5-20-54 at the Cotton Belt Pine Bluff car shops. The photo is a 3-4BL view with a Champion hand brake (see photo page 14, RP CYC Volume 10). It’s unknown to me if all 200 cars received the same type of hand brake. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins










Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi Andy

 

The photo, when enlarged after a capture, is a bit fuzzy (!) but I’m curious about the roofs.  It appears that they wee raised above the top of the original sides.  There’s several ways to do this, but is that fact what I’m seeing?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 2:38 PM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

 

Hi folks-

 

Years ago, after discovering one of these Cotton Belt USRA Clone DS double door rebuilds in the Henderson box car book, I made a scale drawing. The cars seem to have been in the 46000 series of  the SSW. I have an HO model I built of this car about 23 years ago which I would like to update. I never knew what power brake brand was used. I used a Ajax back then.

 

The rebuilds besides reusing the original ends (with mods) also reused the fishbelly USRA style of underframe. With a modified rectangular panel roof and noticeable side sill mods, I think this is a fine looking rebuilt car. The pair of pre-war Youngstown doors and riveted sides work well together for coolness.

 

 

Inline image

 

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service.

 

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

 

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.

Thanks,

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 


mel perry
 

didn't ted culotta do an article in RMC,
anout SSW extended height boxcars?
mel perry


Matt Herson
 

Andy,

Here is a link to another shot showing the brake wheel end of the car.  

To see the full size photo you must join the group but it is free.

www.Railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=116700

Matt Herson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 5:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

 

Hi Andy

 

The photo, when enlarged after a capture, is a bit fuzzy (!) but I’m curious about the roofs.  It appears that they wee raised above the top of the original sides.  There’s several ways to do this, but is that fact what I’m seeing?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 2:38 PM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

 

Hi folks-

 

Years ago, after discovering one of these Cotton Belt USRA Clone DS double door rebuilds in the Henderson box car book, I made a scale drawing. The cars seem to have been in the 46000 series of  the SSW. I have an HO model I built of this car about 23 years ago which I would like to update. I never knew what power brake brand was used. I used a Ajax back then.

 

The rebuilds besides reusing the original ends (with mods) also reused the fishbelly USRA style of underframe. With a modified rectangular panel roof and noticeable side sill mods, I think this is a fine looking rebuilt car. The pair of pre-war Youngstown doors and riveted sides work well together for coolness.

 

 

Inline image

 

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service.

 

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

 

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.

Thanks,

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 


James Brewer
 

Ted's article was in the August 2003 RMC, Essential Freight Cars: 5 Cotton Belt's double-sheathed boxcars.

Jim Brewer


Guy Wilber
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:

“The SSW diagram for 46000-46199 denotes the following info.

3. Roof raised & steel roof applied by SSW 1939

The cars were equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders, Type “E”, 8 tubes, coinciding with SSW raising the roofs. Murphy offered the extensions (as shown in photos). Those gussets along the car line are typical of the extensions.

“11. Nailable Steel Floor the width of the doorway”

Added to many auto cars equipped with loaders to alleviate wear on the floor where autos and light trucks were maneuvered into position with the use of floor jacks and dollies.

“The Murphy roof is interesting as the end sheets closest to the ends are depressed - what appears to be several inches lower than the 10 intermediate roof sheets.”

Obviously done to lower the latitudinal running boards for unrestricted clearance.

“This particular car was built 4-24. Stencils do not specify a rebuild date. It’s a fresh repainted car 5-20-54 at the Cotton Belt Pine Bluff car shops.”

Technically; for accounting purposes, sealing a door and removal of the loaders did not constitute a “Rebuild”. The earlier work surely would have been the governing date as “rebuilt” if the cars were also equipped with “AB” brakes and AAR approved appliances (at the time).

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Ken Adams
 

With my peculiar attachment to DD 40 foot auto/box cars, this would be an interesting project. I have just received the Yarmouth D&RGW 40 foot DD box car and it is now in the TBB queue. 

I found EFC #5 in my archives of RMC articles clipped from the magazine when I dumped many old MR and RMC's a few years back. It only covers the wood sided cars.  Another interesting project. There is an interesting insert in the article on modeling AB brakes that I need to review.

Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them. A weird thought that the much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body might be a start with the rebuilt underframe.  The ends look challenging.  I have one in the TBB queue waiting for Ted's P&LE decals to be reissued. I may issue diversion orders to change it to an SSW rebuild project.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Benjamin Hom
 

Ken Adams asked:
"Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them?"

The 2019 Cocoa Beach Shake 'N Take project detailed the Intermountain 40 ft automobile boxcar to match SOU 272500-272999.


"...much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body..."

Why is it much maligned?


Ben Hom


O Fenton Wells
 

Ken, It's not that difficult to make your own steel sides with Evergreen sheet styrene, especially now with Archer rivets.  This one was interesting as it has two rows of rivets per panel.  I've done it several times, the most recent is the ACL O-24 I finished a few weeks ago.  I've been asked to do an article on this for SAL/ACL modeler.  This car started out it's life as a P2K 50 SD boxcar at 10'-6"IH but now it is an ACL car with a 10'-1"IH.
Fenton

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 3:21 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Ken Adams asked:
"Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them?"

The 2019 Cocoa Beach Shake 'N Take project detailed the Intermountain 40 ft automobile boxcar to match SOU 272500-272999.


"...much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body..."

Why is it much maligned?


Ben Hom



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Richard Townsend
 

The Shake 'n' Take group has done this a number of times. Check their archives.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Oct 25, 2020 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

With my peculiar attachment to DD 40 foot auto/box cars, this would be an interesting project. I have just received the Yarmouth D&RGW 40 foot DD box car and it is now in the TBB queue. 

I found EFC #5 in my archives of RMC articles clipped from the magazine when I dumped many old MR and RMC's a few years back. It only covers the wood sided cars.  Another interesting project. There is an interesting insert in the article on modeling AB brakes that I need to review.

Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them. A weird thought that the much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body might be a start with the rebuilt underframe.  The ends look challenging.  I have one in the TBB queue waiting for Ted's P&LE decals to be reissued. I may issue diversion orders to change it to an SSW rebuild project.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Chuck Cover
 

Fenton,

 

Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar.  Love the double rivet lines.  I will be looking forward to the article.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Chuck.  I've done some SRR 50 footers as well.  The early 50 footers were 10'-0" IH and the SR had 12 ft doors, go figure.


On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Fenton,

 

Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar.  Love the double rivet lines.  I will be looking forward to the article.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Paul Doggett
 

Fenton 

Two really great looking cars great work.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:27, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks Chuck.  I've done some SRR 50 footers as well.  The early 50 footers were 10'-0" IH and the SR had 12 ft doors, go figure.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Fenton,

 

Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar.  Love the double rivet lines.  I will be looking forward to the article.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<SRR #40148.JPG>


O Fenton Wells
 

Thank Paul 


On Oct 26, 2020, at 6:05 AM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

Fenton 

Two really great looking cars great work.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:27, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks Chuck.  I've done some SRR 50 footers as well.  The early 50 footers were 10'-0" IH and the SR had 12 ft doors, go figure.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Fenton,

 

Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar.  Love the double rivet lines.  I will be looking forward to the article.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<SRR #40148.JPG>


Tim O'Connor
 

this may help to identify the brake wheel :-) My Dad's photo (and a VERY old scan)


Frank Hodina
 

There was a Sunshine kit for that SSW autobox. Think it was released in 2007. Let me know if there's any interest in reissuing this car or the other USRA rebuilds that I did for Martin.

Frank Hodina
Byron, IL


Tony Thompson
 

Frank Hodina wrote:

There was a Sunshine kit for that SSW autobox. Think it was released in 2007. Let me know if there's any interest in reissuing this car or the other USRA rebuilds that I did for Martin.

  That's a nice kit. I have the completed car on my layout, too. I would recommend it.

Tony Thompson




O Fenton Wells
 

If you look at the price of Sunshine kits on eBay, especially the less common ones this should sell pretty well.  I also think there is a big demand for 40 ft DD cars.  They seem to go for $70 to $90 a piece on eBay.


On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 1:58 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Frank Hodina wrote:

There was a Sunshine kit for that SSW autobox. Think it was released in 2007. Let me know if there's any interest in reissuing this car or the other USRA rebuilds that I did for Martin.

  That's a nice kit. I have the completed car on my layout, too. I would recommend it.

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


greg snook
 

Absolutely!  I've been chasing several of the USRA rebuilds where possible, and would love to have them available through RCW!
Cheers,
Greg