covered Hoppers


soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

Not only those savings, Rich, but the savings from a much reduced risk of hotboxes and derailments that were caused by hotboxes.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA
That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still pretty much an unknown quantity.

Savings from no need to re-pack, yes, but not from no need to oil, because the oiling equipment still needed to be on the hump approaches, and the carmen still need to carry oil down the train during inspection because of the cars not equipped with roller bearings, which in 1959 was still most of them.
Until the introduction of the Timken AP sealed bearing in 1954, roller bearings also needed to have their oil checked, but the proper oil was different from the common "journal oil", so there was always a question if these expensive bearings would be serviced properly on foreign roads.

Dennis


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Dennis,

Normally I would not disagree with you, but, roller bearings were a known quantity starting in the late 1930's, as were the problems with solid bearings. After World War II, Timken, Hyatt and SKF all started the push to equip freight cars with roller bearings. Sure, cost was an issue, but the primary resistance was, as I also mentioned, due to the feeling that most railroads were unwilling to spend money on roller bearings when most of the cost advantages would be recovered by other roads. Some roads installed roller bearings on captive service cars (UP installing them on stock cars in the late 1950's comes to mind). Gradually, more and more cars started showing up sporting roller bearings in the 1960's and 1970's, and the ICC ruling pretty


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers


 


--- In STMFC@..., Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

Not only those savings, Rich, but the savings from a much reduced risk of hotboxes and derailments that were caused by hotboxes.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA
That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still pretty much an unknown quantity.

Savings from no need to re-pack, yes, but not from no need to oil, because the oiling equipment still needed to be on the hump approaches, and the carmen still need to carry oil down the train during inspection because of the cars not equipped with roller bearings, which in 1959 was still most of them.
Until the introduction of the Timken AP sealed bearing in 1954, roller bearings also needed to have their oil checked, but the proper oil was different from the common "journal oil", so there was always a question if these expensive bearings would be serviced properly on foreign roads.

Dennis


caboose9792@...
 

That would be odd given the railroads were happily equipping there
passenger equipment since the 30's with roller bearings, particularly the
lightweight cars, and they would become mandatory on new construction in 1966 on
freight cars.

Mark Rickert

In a message dated 3/18/2013 5:07:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
destorzek@... writes:

That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still
pretty much an unknown quantity.

Savings from no need to re-pack, yes, but not from no need to oil, because
the oiling equipment still needed to be on the hump approaches, and the
carmen still need to carry oil down the train during inspection because of
the cars not equipped with roller bearings, which in 1959 was still most of
them.
Until the introduction of the Timken AP sealed bearing in 1954, roller
bearings also needed to have their oil checked, but the proper oil was
different from the common "journal oil", so there was always a question if these
expensive bearings would be serviced properly on foreign roads.

Dennis


soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., caboose9792@... wrote:

That would be odd given the railroads were happily equipping there
passenger equipment since the 30's with roller bearings, particularly the
lightweight cars, and they would become mandatory on new construction in 1966 on
freight cars.

Mark Rickert


In a message dated 3/18/2013 5:07:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
destorzek@... writes:

That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still
pretty much an unknown quantity.

OK, I concede, not nineties-think, but not the prevailing attitude during the fifties either, at least not until after 1954, when Timken introduced their AP "All Purpose" lubricated-for-life and sealed bearing. This finally prompted the AAR to recommend them for use on interchange freight cars in 1956.

Yeah, roller bearings had been used in railroad applications since the thirties, but were typically used in applications where the equipment was more or less captive; locomotives and passenger cars. In their initial form, roller bearings required periodic oil changes, done to a level of cleanliness totally foreign to a railroad RIP track. Model Die Casting used to make an HO scale model of a freight (or express box) truck equipped with oil lubricated roller bearings, but I don't know if it is still available.

Aside from the feeling that "other roads" would garner all the benefits of the expensive bearings, I can't help but wonder if there were also concerns about the level of maintenance they would receive on foreign roads. In recent years, improper maintenance of the bearings on a private owner passenger cars has caused at least one road to refuse to handle not only anything without roller bearings, but anything without SEALED roller bearings.

Dennis


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:38 AM, soolinehistory <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., caboose9792@... wrote:

That would be odd given the railroads were happily equipping there
passenger equipment since the 30's with roller bearings, particularly the
lightweight cars, and they would become mandatory on new construction in 1966 on
freight cars.

Mark Rickert


In a message dated 3/18/2013 5:07:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
destorzek@... writes:

That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still
pretty much an unknown quantity.
OK, I concede, not nineties-think, but not the prevailing attitude during the fifties either, at least not until after 1954, when Timken introduced their AP "All Purpose" lubricated-for-life and sealed bearing. This finally prompted the AAR to recommend them for use on interchange freight cars in 1956.

Yeah, roller bearings had been used in railroad applications since the thirties, but were typically used in applications where the equipment was more or less captive; locomotives and passenger cars. In their initial form, roller bearings required periodic oil changes, done to a level of cleanliness totally foreign to a railroad RIP track.

Aside from the feeling that "other roads" would garner all the benefits of the expensive bearings, I can't help but wonder if there were also concerns about the level of maintenance they would receive on foreign roads.
I'm late coming to this discussion, having been on the road for several days, but I have to chip in here, having spent a lot of time lately studying the history of freight car truck development. Everything Dennis says is (as usual) exactly right. Looking at the 1950s from the perspective of the 21st century is almost certain to distort one's understanding. Installing roller bearings on cars in captive service (e.g., almost all passenger cars) was one thing; the railroad could make provisions to insure that they were properly maintained. Sending roller-bearing-equipped cars off-line in interchange was an entirely different matter, especially with no control over where they went or how long they would be gone.

I've been told that when roller-bearing-equpped UP DLS stock cars went off-line briefly, as they occasionally did, they sometimes came back with their journal boxes full of solid-bearing journal oil, as pouring oil indiscriminately into journal boxes was what carmen routinely did on every car that came past them. Painting the journal box covers aluminum on what were otherwise standard AAR freight car trucks was meaningless except to the UP's own employees (and probably meaningless to many of them unless they worked on the LA&SL and were involved in DLS service).

There were good, practical reasons (apart from cost) why the railroads were reluctant to adopt roller bearings on freight cars in interchange until the growing number of free-roaming100 ton covered hoppers forced the issue.

Richard Hendrickson