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Deciphering a Conductor's record


Steve SANDIFER
 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


John King
 

Steve,

 

I’ve seen other sources where P.H.P. represented Packing House Products.    Not sure if that is the case here.

 

John King

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

Attachments:


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Steve,

 

Can you provide the date of the document, it might help pin some things down.

 

PHP probably equals Packing House Products

Contents of CB&Q 113493 probably Canned Goods

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Kenneth Montero
 

From Piedmont & Western Railroad Club website - Railroad reporting marks:
Some interpolation by me:

CGW = Chicago Great Western
LPT =?
MRJX = Marcus-Ruth-Jerome?. Possibly a Mather refrigerator car (type R). The company rendered fat.
CMstP = Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul -  a prior name for Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific (Milwaukee Road)
TIDX = TIDEWATER OIL CO.; TIDE WATER ASSOCIATED OIL CO.;  TIDAL REFINING CO.; TIDAL GASOLINE CO.]
GF = Georgia & Florida Railway
MLT = ML&T = Margan's Louisiana & Texas Railroad
P&P = P&PU = Peoria & Pekin Union?
KTOX (and tank car) -unknown

I hope that this helps.

Ken Montero

On 10/11/2020 11:28 PM James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:


I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.



J. Stephen Sandifer



Douglas Harding
 

Do you know the era of the record?

A good source of reporting mark information, including private marks, is http://www.nakina.net/other/report/report.html

Here is what I am seeing/interpreting. Some of this is guess work.

 

CGW – Chicago Great Western with company materials

LPT = Live Poultry Transit, poultry car, appears to be empty (the number fits)

MRLX = Morris & Co (a meat packer purchased by Armour in the 20s) PHP is packing house products

MRTX is Marx Hide & Tallow Co.

MRX, MRRX, MRUX are Morrell = meat reefer

MRRX is also Mather Refrigerator Express

A 18528 contains company stores?

CMStP = Milwaukee with shingles

CBQ 113493 contains company goods

 

A 35502 sent to work outfit, EOF could be initials of man in charge

TIDX = Tide Water Oil Co, later Getty Oil.

GF = Georgia & Florida, later Central of Georgia, then Southern, then Norfolk Southern

GT = Grand Trunk? Flat

 

MLT = Morgan’s Louisiana & Texas

P&P = Peoria and Pekin Union

 

GC = Graham County

KOTX is Kanotex Refining. Did the conductor reverse some letters?

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Brian Shumaker
 

Peoria & Pekin Union was a transfer railroad operation which probably didn’t own any revenue equipment, I need to check an Official Guide. 

Brian


james murrie
 

ATSF 9231 contents = "Show baggage" as in Broadway show sets, etc. ?

Jim Murrie


al_brown03
 

Mm ... I would be very surprised if the Graham County owned revenue equipment. I'd check the Central of Georgia roster for the number.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Steve SANDIFER
 

1923. I have used the Westerfield 1925 ORER to try to find ID but likely candidates like P&PU don't have car numbers that match. 

Steve Sandifer

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 11:03 PM, Steve and Barb Hile
<shile@...> wrote:

Steve,

 

Can you provide the date of the document, it might help pin some things down.

 

PHP probably equals Packing House Products

Contents of CB&Q 113493 probably Canned Goods

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Sandifer wrote:
"1923. I have used the Westerfield 1925 ORER to try to find ID but likely candidates like P&PU don't have car numbers that match."

My thought is P&P could be shorthand for Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific, but I have my doubts for the following reasons:
- The reorg after the 1925 bankruptcy creating the CMStP&P occurred in 1928.
- The car numbers seem low for freight cars.

Still, it might be worth doing the cross check in the ORER to eliminate this possibility.


Ben Hom


earlyrail
 

P&P is not the PP&U
Checked Oct 1923 ORER and the car numbers do  not match

CG might be CGR Canadian Government Rail
But I find no matching numbers under Canadian National
Howard Garner


Douglas Harding
 

Ben the CMSTP is on the list with a boxcar. Why would the conductor use a difference reference mark for the same railroad?

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:04 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

Steve Sandifer wrote:
"1923. I have used the Westerfield 1925 ORER to try to find ID but likely candidates like P&PU don't have car numbers that match."

My thought is P&P could be shorthand for Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific, but I have my doubts for the following reasons:
- The reorg after the 1925 bankruptcy creating the CMStP&P occurred in 1928.
- The car numbers seem low for freight cars.

Still, it might be worth doing the cross check in the ORER to eliminate this possibility.


Ben Hom


Benjamin Hom
 

Doug Harding asked:
"Ben the CMSTP is on the list with a boxcar. Why would the conductor use a difference reference mark for the same railroad?"

See my previous post:
"My thought is P&P could be shorthand for Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific, but I have my doubts for the following reasons:
- The reorg after the 1925 bankruptcy creating the CMStP&P occurred in 1928."

That data supports the above misgiving.


Ben Hom


Don Burn
 

What railroad is the conductors record from?  I know car’s went everywhere but the fact that P&P is obscure and that three different cars are listed make me want to know if it is some industrial or shortline that connected to the railroad the record is from.

 

Don Burn

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Steve,

 

Could you also tell us where this train was running?   It appears that all of the P&P cars are empty.  Could they be returning home?

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 7:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

1923. I have used the Westerfield 1925 ORER to try to find ID but likely candidates like P&PU don't have car numbers that match. 

Steve Sandifer

 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 11:03 PM, Steve and Barb Hile

<shile@...> wrote:

Steve,

 

Can you provide the date of the document, it might help pin some things down.

 

PHP probably equals Packing House Products

Contents of CB&Q 113493 probably Canned Goods

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Steve and Barb Hile
 

FWIW, the fourth from the bottom could well be RJOX 100 for Rajah Oil and Refining, they had such a car number in 1925.  Note that there is no number 100 in KOTX in 1925.

 

TIDX 352 makes sense for Tidal Refining in 1925.

 

What makes less sense is the shape of the letters in different lines.  The first letter of TIDX 352 sure looks like the second letter in RJOX 100, but, based on these surmises, they were different.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 7:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

1923. I have used the Westerfield 1925 ORER to try to find ID but likely candidates like P&PU don't have car numbers that match. 

Steve Sandifer

 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 11:03 PM, Steve and Barb Hile

<shile@...> wrote:

Steve,

 

Can you provide the date of the document, it might help pin some things down.

 

PHP probably equals Packing House Products

Contents of CB&Q 113493 probably Canned Goods

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:29 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

I have been transcribing a conductor’s record. There are a few things I have not figured out, especially his RR IDs. Please look and see if you can offer any suggestions.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


cliffprather
 

The location and railroad of the conductor’s book is very important to known.