end of kits


mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Hey Guys,  Hobbies....especially Model Railroading and all that goes along with it is suppose to be Fun.......Bitchin'  and Moanin' ain 't  fun in my book.....Get a Life and enjoy the Hobby......Larry Mennie




________________________________
From: "asychis@aol.com" <asychis@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:52 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: end of kits



 
But Brian, how many of us who live miles and miles from hobby stores now
have almost unlimited access to everything a person could want or need in
model railroading. I can browse anytime day or night, if one internet store
doesn't have what I want, the rest of the world is open to me to search. I
don't have to travel another 30 miles or place a backorder that may take a
month to fill when the store owner gets enough orders to send them to
Walthers.

I find it much better than the old way when I'd go to a hobby store and
find the Floquil rack half empty, or a stock of one bridge pier. Everyone has
their opinion, but I am truly optimistic that we're living in the best time
ever in the history of model railroading. The sky is not falling and
Timmy isn't in the well. :^),

Jerry Michels

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Simon <simon_dunkley@...>
 

Tim,

I am not sure if you are pulling my leg, or if you have missed my point, as the whole essence was that many who start with building don't weather things (which I think is a shame but this is down to personal taste) whereas with younger modellers who show a talent for applying it to ready to play models, there is a way to get them more involved in the hobby, and build their confidence and interest, as well as a more varied and, dare I say, prototypical freight car fleet.

Personally, I started by removing moulded handrails, etc, on plastic RTR, and replacing them with wire, moving on to repainting and weathering, and then plastic kits. Following that to a dabble with etched and cast components and kits, to building my own from a variety of materials. Although one thing merged into another, there is no denying that there are some clear stages in that process.

Hence the "stages" were just floated as a way of marking progress. Once they have mastered weathering RTR, they can/may move onto repainting. Once they are good at this, an older modeller acting as mentor can suggest/guide/encourage them to refine some of the moulded details. Once they have got the hang of that, kits are an obvious next stage, with increasing complexity and difficulty, finally getting into scratch-building.

All this done by taking an active interest in their progress and providing support and encouragement. It can also be shown on-line, but if you know some younger (or beginner) modellers in your area, it is possible to provide support and encouragement.

Or we can just sit here, bemoan the lack of younger entrants into the hobby, and fail to encourage them.

Just my opinion.

Simon

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Simon, modeling is modeling. But I'm not sure that I buy the "stages"
of modeling. Many of our finest scratchbuilders, kitbashers and builders
on this list (you know who you are! :-)) have never weathered anything!

Tim O'



One thing I have noticed with RTR is that people who don't build things
now have time to develop weathering and painting skills -- There were some
kids (20's) at the Springfield show with a spectacular collection of
beautifully weathered cars (including many with added open loads). I mean,
if you need a couple dozen cars of one type, would you like to build AND
weather them, or just concentrate on the weathering? There are now many
specialized paints sold specifically for weathering.
Is this not the way in, though? They start with weathering, such that they can make 20 cars in the same paint scheme look different. Then they move onto repaints before the weathering stage, to create more variety, then detail changes/upgrades, and finally onto conversions and kits. Each time they "advance" a stage, they know that they can always finish off the project - a stage many who start by building are reticent about.

Where's the problem, other than in our failure to reach out to interested young modellers?

Simon


Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Many of our finest scratchbuilders, kitbashers and builders
on this list (you know who you are! :-)) have never weathered
anything!

Have you considered that the proper term for these folks might be
"model builders" as opposed to "modelers". When I think of a "modeler" what comes to mind is someone who tries to capture something in miniature as it is/was in real life most of the time, not the moment it was completed. Thus I would suggest that those who build but never
weather might better be called "model builders". I do not see it as in anyway diminishing what these folks accomplish but simply a way to better define the overall hobby.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Bruce Smith
 

Don,

Why? Why this need to pigeon-hole? Why can't we all be "modelers? That's the term I use, because that term is broad, inclusive and flexible. It simply implies some interest in reproducing something (real or imagined) in a miniature form. We certainly have lots of modifiers already to describe subsets such as "prototype modelers" but in the end we're all modelers. Looking forward, as modeling continues to evolve, being broadly inclusive is the way to grow the hobby...

Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Don wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Many of our finest scratchbuilders, kitbashers and builders
on this list (you know who you are! :-)) have never weathered
anything!


Have you considered that the proper term for these folks might be
"model builders" as opposed to "modelers". When I think of a "modeler" what comes to mind is someone who tries to capture something in miniature as it is/was in real life most of the time, not the moment it was completed. Thus I would suggest that those who build but never
weather might better be called "model builders". I do not see it as in anyway diminishing what these folks accomplish but simply a way to better define the overall hobby.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Dave Nelson
 

The Hobby is changing. It's always changing.

IMO a fair number of people do not understand one big way it is changing: a
lot of model railroads have given up on physical models and have migrated to
virtual models in simulators. Now I know a lot of you are inclined to say
"well that's semi-interesting Dave, but that's not my hobby" but guys, it
is; it's just a different scale, it uses different tools, but the rail
knowledge and basic tasks are the same. We have all the same interests in
railroad technology and history as anyone on this board. We buy the same
books. We strive to learn the same arcane knowledge. We talk about the
same railroads, equipment, and history. We just don't buy and use the same
products.

As an example, I own an internet forum for people interested in train sims,
with an emphasis on content creation -- 3d cad and art for locomotives &
freight equipment. I have almost 2000 members from about 60 countries.
Roughly 175 people stop by every day and about 100 messages are posted each
day. I'm running a poll right now: How old are you? So far 29% had said
under 30. IMO what they're likely to have in common is a small budget and
no space. Once active in what we call V-Scale, is the appeal of physical
model railroading ever going to be greater than the burden of money spent
and space used? Considering that V-Scale is virtually free and measured in a
few square inches, I have great doubts it will. A few quotes from
comments appended to the poll:

"I still admired and aspired to have a layout someday...[but]... virtual
simming has given me EVERYTHING I ever wanted."
"... once I discovered virtual RRing, I've never looked back..."
" Sure, I was over 50 when I found the sim and there is nothing that I could
think of that would cause me to go back to physical model railroading
again."
" At the age of 52, I discovered MSTS and learned to reskin in 2005 and I
never looked back."
" Not far into the effort I realized [train sims] had no space
constraints... w/ [train sims] I could have it all."

My point in describing this is simply to point out that, in the ever
evolving form of Model Railroading, there is yet another splinter group
which results in yet again fewer potential customers for existing product
manufacturers. IMO it has to have an effect of some sort on either prices
or product availability... and there is, again IMO, no reason to think
things will revert to the way it used to be.

As they say, you can choose your opinions but you cannot choose your facts:
some model railroaders get their "fix" to a very satisfactory degree w/
V-Scale... and they are not buying kits or RTR... or anything else for that
matter. IMO that has to count for something in these sorts of "our world
is ending" debates and pretending it's of no concern to... say how many
scale freight cars in my scale are in the market today), again IMO, "just
whistling past the graveyard".

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
geodyssey

I consider this subject to be a subset of the "The End of the hobby in near"
argument. I've been hearing variations of that since I started doing
serious modeling in the early 70s.


Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce, I totally agree with you. I know some people who never build trains
but who do many other things -- lay track, implement incredibly complex wiring,
create beautiful scenery, etc -- and some who just add weathering and details.
It's all model railroading.

Tim O'

Don,

Why? Why this need to pigeon-hole? Why can't we all be "modelers? That's the term I use, because that term is broad, inclusive and flexible. It simply implies some interest in reproducing something (real or imagined) in a miniature form. We certainly have lots of modifiers already to describe subsets such as "prototype modelers" but in the end we're all modelers. Looking forward, as modeling continues to evolve, being broadly inclusive is the way to grow the hobby...

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL


Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Bruce,

Not so much an attempt to "pigeon-hole" as simply trying to be more specific since it seemed to me that is what was being sought though it simply wasn't being said.

Cordially, Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Don,

Why? Why this need to pigeon-hole? Why can't we all be "modelers? That's the term I use, because that term is broad, inclusive and flexible. It simply implies some interest in reproducing something (real or imagined) in a miniature form. We certainly have lots of modifiers already to describe subsets such as "prototype modelers" but in the end we're all modelers. Looking forward, as modeling continues to evolve, being broadly inclusive is the way to grow the hobby...

Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Don wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:

Many of our finest scratchbuilders, kitbashers and builders
on this list (you know who you are! :-)) have never weathered
anything!


Have you considered that the proper term for these folks might be
"model builders" as opposed to "modelers". When I think of a "modeler" what comes to mind is someone who tries to capture something in miniature as it is/was in real life most of the time, not the moment it was completed. Thus I would suggest that those who build but never
weather might better be called "model builders". I do not see it as in anyway diminishing what these folks accomplish but simply a way to better define the overall hobby.

Cordially, Don Valentine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]