Topics

Express reefers?

Bob Werre
 

I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre

Matthew Hurst
 

Well Bob.....

Where do you model , what do you model and when?  The answer to these questions would help in narrowing it down.

Matthew  


On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 11:19 AM Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:

I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre

Bob Miller
 

The Santa Fe would run multiple express reefers in the Fast Mail for fresh fruit, e.g. strawberries. That would have ended in the 1960’s, maybe even the late 50’s as that traffic shifted to trucks.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 11:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express reefers?

 

Well Bob.....

 

Where do you model , what do you model and when?  The answer to these questions would help in narrowing it down.

 

Matthew  

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 11:19 AM Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:

I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Werre asked:
"I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush."

The answer is yes (examination of photos PRR mail and express trains often turn up multiple Class R50B and toher express reefers), but your question casts an extremely wide net.  We need more information about your layout concept.  Main or branch?  "Too many" express reefers for originating traffic, or do you run bridge traffic, including dedicated mail and express?  What part of the year?  Remember that express reefers were used for time-critical shipments, so items such as medicine, the first harvest of higher value produce such as berries, flowers, etc..


Ben Hom

C J Wyatt
 

Express reefers have been known to run in freight trains, sometimes when returning empty, so my opinion is that they are fair game for STMFC. Other opinions may vary.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, September 9, 2019, 11:19:04 AM EDT, Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:


I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre

npin53
 
Edited

The NP ran cherry trains as a second section of the Eastbound Alaskan. A Pacific, a string of NRC express reefers, and caboose. Up to 8-9 reefers.

Lloyd Keyser
 

The C&NW would run solid express reefer trains as required off the UP connection in Omaha. These trains were known to run upwards of 15 to 20 cars and pulled by the big Hudson's at passenger train speed. In general they called them cherry trains. One is shown East bound on the Linn County cut off on the south side of Cedar Rapids, IA. on page 20 of Chicago and North Western In Color Volume I. After arriving in Chicago the train was immediately broken up for the eastern roads.   Lloyd Keyser


On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 11:20 AM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
Express reefers have been known to run in freight trains, sometimes when returning empty, so my opinion is that they are fair game for STMFC. Other opinions may vary.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, September 9, 2019, 11:19:04 AM EDT, Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:


I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre

Tim O'Connor
 


Yes many times during harvests of ripe fruit crops. Continued into the late 1950s.


On 9/9/2019 11:21 AM, Matthew Hurst wrote:
Well Bob.....

Where do you model , what do you model and when?  The answer to these questions would help in narrowing it down.

Matthew  

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 11:19 AM Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:

I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Dennis Storzek
 

Is that salt bags on the roofs? What fruit or veggie used brine?

Dennis Storzek

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

Is that salt bags on the roofs? What fruit or veggie used brine?

      Certainly not brine (unless the veggies were frozen), but 3 to 5 percent salt would really hasten cooling, a good idea for a warm load. Once most produce shippers had their own precooking, salt addition wasn't done very often, as loads weren't usually warm on departure any more. That was the case after about 1950.

Tony Thompson



Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Dennis and List Members,
 
I don't know if the bags are salt, nor do I know what fruits or veggies used brine, but the caption information I recorded for this image is as follows:
 
"Loading strawberries into refrigerated railroad cars Ponchatoula LA"
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express reefers?

Is that salt bags on the roofs? What fruit or veggie used brine?

Dennis Storzek

Richard Townsend
 

Tony got auto-corrected. He wrote “precooled “ and it was changed to “precooked “ by big brother. 


On Sep 9, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis and List Members,
 
I don't know if the bags are salt, nor do I know what fruits or veggies used brine, but the caption information I recorded for this image is as follows:
 
"Loading strawberries into refrigerated railroad cars Ponchatoula LA"
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express reefers?

Is that salt bags on the roofs? What fruit or veggie used brine?

Dennis Storzek

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Townsend wrote:

Tony got auto-corrected. He wrote “precooled “ and it was changed to “precooked “ by big brother. 

  Right you are, Richard, and thanks. Obviously I didn't notice. Usually I watch more carefully for that stuff!!

Tony Thompson



James SANDIFER
 

Actual consists, Santa Fe Fast Mail

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Werre
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 10:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Express reefers?

 

I am seldom a poster here but I learn so much.  I have a question regarding express reefers that I hope is allowed on this list.  I have too many of them for the size of my layout.  Is there evidence of express trains running several at one time?  I need to justify running a short string of them as part of a harvest rush.

Bob Werre

Alex Huff
 

Hammond, LA, on the IC main line, was another loading station for strawberries.  The reefers were pre-cooled, having been iced at the division point and shops at McComb, MS.  Destined mostly for the Chicago market, I was told the berries were picked in the morning and loaded into cars by late morning. The berries were inspected by buyers as the cars were loaded and sold at auction.  Once sold, the carloads moved in special trains, known locally as "Crimson Flyers" at passenger train speeds.  The Hammond chapter of the NRHS newsletter is titled "Crimson Flyer".
Alex Huff 

Douglas Harding
 

Attached is a listing of temperatures required for shipping various kinds of fruits and vegetables. Note that Strawberries, among many others, are to be kept at 32. A small application of salt would keep the temp in the car at the required level.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express reefers?

 

Is that salt bags on the roofs? What fruit or veggie used brine?

Dennis Storzek

Tony Thompson
 

Alex Huff wrote:

Hammond, LA, on the IC main line, was another loading station for strawberries.  The reefers were pre-cooled, having been iced at the division point and shops at McComb, MS.  

    If you want to use the tariff language, common to railroaders and shippers alike, the reefers would be pre-iced and the LOAD could be pre-cooled, not vice versa.

Tony Thompson



Dennis Storzek
 

So, since we are seeing bagged salt at the loading point, I take the reefers were pre-iced without salt, and the salt added at time of loading to drive the temperature lower to more quickly pull the heat out of the load?

Dennis Storzek

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

So, since we are seeing bagged salt at the loading point, I take the reefers were pre-iced without salt, and the salt added at time of loading to drive the temperature lower to more quickly pull the heat out of the load?

     Yes, that is what was recommended. Some shippers wanted salt in pre-icing as well, to get even colder air in the car, but the car standing for perhaps two hours with doors wide open for loading kind of wasted that salt. (The shipper was charged for it, of course.)

Tony Thompson



ed_mines
 

Yes, during the late steam era there were entire trains of express reefers on railroads in the anthracite region going to New York City, frequently ending with a coach or even several passenger cars.

The book Erie Power shows a train with many identical PFE express reefers hauling cherries.

LV would run blocks of express reefers in mixed trains