[External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


naptownprr
 

Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?
 
This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Ron,

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

No. The sky is not falling,
Sincerely,
Bruce Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Jim;

 

Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!

 

Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


naptownprr
 

Elden,

Try this address:

jhthistle2013@...

Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?
 

Jim;

 

Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!

 

Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Charlie Vlk
 

All-

On a similar vein, I always used to enjoy the snapshots that people would send into Model Railroader magazine for Trackside Photos.

 

Some of the photos were of poor quality (drugstore developed Brownie or later Instamatic shots) but they showed some piece of equipment or portion of a layout that the sender was proud of and wanted to share and there was always something one could learn from the submissions.

 

Now only photos of very high modeling excellence and photographic standard gets published and they are much less interesting. 

 

I wonder how many people gave up on the Hobby because they felt they would never be able to rise to such lofty heights?

The magazine reverted to “Model Railroading is Fun” but I’m not sure judging by “experts” is the best way to encourage excellence in modeling.

 

Popular vote contests or just plain exhibits of work….even projects in progress….are a much better way to grow the enjoyment of the Hobby.  

 

I think the RPM movement would not be where it is today if a panel of judges would mete out ribbons based on some scoring system.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

PS- Is the advent of 3D CAD and Rapid Prototype printing another sign of the demise of craftsmanship in the Hobby of Model Railroading?   Should we all revert to bronze sand castings and salvaging material from cigar boxes, tin cans and shirt cardboards to be worthy?   

 

I think the State of Modeling is higher than it ever has been. The state of Understanding and Research of the Prototype arguably is higher than it was when a person could go out and measure and photograph the real thing.  We have materials available that allow more accurate representation of the prototype.

 

I got out of HO and into N Scale in 1967 when I realized that I would have to scratch build every car for the CB&Q and it was before styrene sheet and shapes, resin casting (beyond tree stumps!), road specific production models were available.  Now HO has RTR production models of CB&Q equipment and many resin kits for most freight cars and many passenger cars, N Scale has fewer kits but with 3D CAD I will have to start modeling the Q again because rapid prototyping can produce anything I want…including steam locomotives and road specific diesels, freight and passenger cars.

 

People poo-poo RTR cars but I want to spend my time on CB&Q prototypes.  I am not going to spend time on building ordinary cars to put in a freight train from the PRR, ATSF, SAL, etc. unless a particular car is not available and it catches my fancy.  RTR allows me to have a train to run and I can trade $$$ for time to spend on projects that I want…including building a layout.

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Elden,

 

Try this address:

 

 

Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Jim;

 

Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!

 

Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Jason P
 

Charlie,
I'll have to disagree with your assertion of popular vote being an inherently better solution as I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions. The pitfall is you'll find that the larger scale models tend to win the votes regardless of the work actually put into the models that have been entered. I've seen a kitbashed HO caboose that had full underbody detailing, wire grab irons, and completely scratchbuilt fabricated wire end railings that had scored 100-points at an NMRA contest lose a popular vote contest to a stock Aristo-Craft G-scale caboose that only had a decal job applied. Who had the "better" model in that case?

-Jason P

On 01/13/2022 12:52 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:


All-

On a similar vein, I always used to enjoy the snapshots that people would send into Model Railroader magazine for Trackside Photos.

 

Some of the photos were of poor quality (drugstore developed Brownie or later Instamatic shots) but they showed some piece of equipment or portion of a layout that the sender was proud of and wanted to share and there was always something one could learn from the submissions.

 

Now only photos of very high modeling excellence and photographic standard gets published and they are much less interesting. 

 

I wonder how many people gave up on the Hobby because they felt they would never be able to rise to such lofty heights?

The magazine reverted to “Model Railroading is Fun” but I’m not sure judging by “experts” is the best way to encourage excellence in modeling.

 

Popular vote contests or just plain exhibits of work….even projects in progress….are a much better way to grow the enjoyment of the Hobby.  

 

I think the RPM movement would not be where it is today if a panel of judges would mete out ribbons based on some scoring system.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

PS- Is the advent of 3D CAD and Rapid Prototype printing another sign of the demise of craftsmanship in the Hobby of Model Railroading?   Should we all revert to bronze sand castings and salvaging material from cigar boxes, tin cans and shirt cardboards to be worthy?   

 

I think the State of Modeling is higher than it ever has been. The state of Understanding and Research of the Prototype arguably is higher than it was when a person could go out and measure and photograph the real thing.  We have materials available that allow more accurate representation of the prototype.

 

I got out of HO and into N Scale in 1967 when I realized that I would have to scratch build every car for the CB&Q and it was before styrene sheet and shapes, resin casting (beyond tree stumps!), road specific production models were available.  Now HO has RTR production models of CB&Q equipment and many resin kits for most freight cars and many passenger cars, N Scale has fewer kits but with 3D CAD I will have to start modeling the Q again because rapid prototyping can produce anything I want…including steam locomotives and road specific diesels, freight and passenger cars.

 

People poo-poo RTR cars but I want to spend my time on CB&Q prototypes.  I am not going to spend time on building ordinary cars to put in a freight train from the PRR, ATSF, SAL, etc. unless a particular car is not available and it catches my fancy.  RTR allows me to have a train to run and I can trade $$$ for time to spend on projects that I want…including building a layout.

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


Elden,

 

Try this address:

 

 

Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


Jim;


Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!


Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.


Thanks!


Elden Gatwood


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts