FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York


Bill Welch
 

Absolutely not.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

GUYZ<
 
Another thought is iced fish products, though I doubt any FGE cars were used for it.
 
Fred Freitas

From: Bryan Busséy <bbussey@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Cc: lnbill <fgexbill@...>
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York


 
The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting
Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens
County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE
icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point.

bb

On 9/2/2011 2:49 PM, lnbill wrote:

Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of
FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY
(Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency,
Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New
York.

Maybrook is in Orange County. I have figured out where Oak Point is yet.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Bryan
Busséy <bbussey@> wrote:

The NYNH&H also operated in New York: The Maybrook Line (Orange,
Dutchess) and the Main Line (Westchester, Bronx, Queens, Kings, New
York).

bb

On 9/2/2011 12:04 PM, Bill Schneider wrote:

Here's a start Bill. I'm sure that others can fill in some blanks.

Bill Schneider

Erie Railroad Co. - New York -

Nickel Plate âEUR" New York -

Long Island Railroad Co. âEUR" New York âEUR" Kings, Bronx,
Queens, Nassau,
Suffolk
Counties

New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. âEUR" Connecticut
(all) âEUR"
Fairfield,
Litchfield, New Haven, Middlesex, Hartford, Tolland, New London and
Windham
counties
New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. âEUR" Massachusetts
âEUR" Hampden,
Berkshire, Barnstaple, Plymouth, Bristol, Norfolk, Suffolk, Middlesex,
Worcester, Hampshire.

New York, Ontario & Western Railway Co. âEUR" New York âEUR"
Orange, Sullivan,
Ulster, Delaware, Ostego, Oneida, Oswego, Rockland Counties (maybe
a few
smaller ones as well)

Pennsylvania Railroad Co. âEUR" New York âEUR" Chemung, Schuyler,
Seneca, Wayne,
Cattaraugus, Erie, (maybe others)

Staten Island Rapid Transit Ry. - New York âEUR" Richmond County (?)
__________________________________________________________

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:18 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

Gentleman:

Using the list of FGE contracted railroads from my message # 102650
as a reference, can those of you familiar with the railroads with
trackage in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York, please send me
a message identifying which ones operated in each of the three
states. I know the Long Island Railroad served Suffolk County and the
Staten Island Rapid Transit served Staten Island/Richmond County. I
realize some may be obvious but in this case I would appreciate it
you assume I know nothing.

Further, if you know which counties the particular RR's in question
served in each state that would be very helpful also. I have USDA
info with loadings by county and I am trying to sort out who would
have been loading "what" and "when?"

Thanks in advance for your help!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Peter Ness
 

Bill,

You dind't ask about RI, so maybe there's no icing there, but it is between parts of CT and MA...

New York, New Haven & Hartford in Rhode Island:
Counties:
Bristol, Kent, Newport, Providence and Washington

Not sure if there was icing, but there was meat packing.

Commodities in the New Haven region (at least into the '50's); cranberries, fish, apples, pears, corn, tomatoes, berries (straw, rasp, blue and black in addition to cran) poultry...were eggs shipped by rail?

I'm getting hungry.

Regards,
Peter Ness

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York



Tim

Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out.

A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx?
> Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and
> not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have
> icing stations at destinations?
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
> >The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting
> >Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens
> >County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE
> >icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point.
> >
> >bb
> >
> >> Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of
> >> FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY
> >> (Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency,
> >> Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New
> >> York.
>


Tim O'Connor
 

Apples were grown in great quantities in Massachusetts. Also dairy products
like butter, cheese, ice cream from processors in Massachusetts and Connecticut.
And I'd forgotten about seafood products that could be shipped in freight reefers
like salted cod, frozen fish, whatever.

At 9/2/2011 06:18 PM Friday, you wrote:
I think you are probably correct Bill. However both the Long Island and SIRT railroads had a "Refrigerator Car Contract" with FGE which meant they were loading perishable commodities on their lines. Why else would FGE be furnishing them cars? Oak Brook seems out of position be handling this traffic. However it listed as an "Initial Icing" facility, albeit an "Emergency" facility.

St George could have iced cars ordered by SIRT perhaps, as they handed off to the B&O, unclear about cars from the LI.

This is all part of a picture I am trying to sort out.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:

Bill,

My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that the New York icing facilities would be for cars being interchanged or held for the numerous car float connections. That well known expert of everything (!) Wikipedia lists some of the operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_float

Bill Schneider


al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:

Here's a start Bill. I'm sure that others can fill in some blanks.

Bill Schneider

Erie Railroad Co. - New York -
Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Steuben, Erie, Niagara, Wyoming, Genesee, Livingston, Monroe, Chemung, Tioga, Broome, Delaware, Sullivan, Orange, Rockland, New York, Bronx Counties


Nickel Plate â€" New York -
Chautauqua and Erie Counties

-- hth --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Bill Welch
 

Thank you Peter for the info on perishable from NYNY&H area.

My database of FGE Icing Points does not show any in L'll Rhodey. Does not there were none, just none on their contracted lines.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ness" <prness@...> wrote:

Bill,

You dind't ask about RI, so maybe there's no icing there, but it is between parts of CT and MA...

New York, New Haven & Hartford in Rhode Island:
Counties:
Bristol, Kent, Newport, Providence and Washington

Not sure if there was icing, but there was meat packing.

Commodities in the New Haven region (at least into the '50's); cranberries, fish, apples, pears, corn, tomatoes, berries (straw, rasp, blue and black in addition to cran) poultry...were eggs shipped by rail?

I'm getting hungry.

Regards,
Peter Ness

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York



Tim

Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out.

A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:
>
>
> I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx?
> Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and
> not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have
> icing stations at destinations?
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
> >The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting
> >Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens
> >County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE
> >icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point.
> >
> >bb
> >
> >> Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of
> >> FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY
> >> (Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency,
> >> Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New
> >> York.
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Greg Martin
 

Bill.

Or held for reconsignment at destination. But surely this wouldn't have been too many cars, hopefully the goods were sold by then, but not always.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schneider <bschneider424@comcast.net>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York




Bill,

My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that the New York icing facilities would be for cars being interchanged or held for the numerous car float connections. That well known expert of everything (!) Wikipedia lists some of the operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_float

Bill Schneider

From: lnbill
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:03 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

Tim

Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out.

A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce.

Bill Welch

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx?
Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and
not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have
icing stations at destinations?

Tim O'Connor



The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting
Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens
County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE
icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point.

bb

Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of
FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY
(Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency,
Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New
York.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


mark
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Mike Del Vecchio wrote:
New York City was also an import point for produce and many other
items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for
example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into
fleets of reefers.
Those bananas weren't iced, though.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

I have seen an old photo taken btw 1900-1920 showing loads of bananas being loaded by hand into fleets of ventilated boxcars.I'm not sure of the location, though,there was long platforms with cars spotted on both sides.


Bill Welch
 

Just to clarify, FGE would NOT knowingly have transported any fish related products, unless they were in a can.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Apples were grown in great quantities in Massachusetts. Also dairy products
like butter, cheese, ice cream from processors in Massachusetts and Connecticut.
And I'd forgotten about seafood products that could be shipped in freight reefers
like salted cod, frozen fish, whatever.




At 9/2/2011 06:18 PM Friday, you wrote:
I think you are probably correct Bill. However both the Long Island and SIRT railroads had a "Refrigerator Car Contract" with FGE which meant they were loading perishable commodities on their lines. Why else would FGE be furnishing them cars? Oak Brook seems out of position be handling this traffic. However it listed as an "Initial Icing" facility, albeit an "Emergency" facility.

St George could have iced cars ordered by SIRT perhaps, as they handed off to the B&O, unclear about cars from the LI.

This is all part of a picture I am trying to sort out.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@> wrote:

Bill,

My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that the New York icing facilities would be for cars being interchanged or held for the numerous car float connections. That well known expert of everything (!) Wikipedia lists some of the operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_float

Bill Schneider


Eric Hansmann
 

I recently moved to the outskirts of New Paltz, New York and the New Haven's Maybrook Line was just a mile or so from the home. Upon reading a book on the Poughkeepsie Bridge, it seems apples and grapes were shipped out along a few stops between the Bridge and Maybrook Yard. This would be from Ulster County towns of Clintondale, Modena, and possibly St. Elmo. The text does note that many shipments moved to truck transport after the Depression.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
New Paltz, NY


ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY (Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New York.

Maybrook is in Orange County. I have figured out where Oak Point is yet.
Maybrook was the western terminus on the NH. It is in the mid Hudson region about 12 miles west of the river & 10 miles west of Newburgh, NY. NH interchanged with Erie at Maybrook & received much of the perishable traffic bound for New England. Ted Cullotta is the expert on this NH freight only line.

Oak Point (Bronx) was the southern terminus of NH. It would be logical to reice perishable north bound freight at this point.

The Long Island railroad served Queens, Brooklyn, Nassau & Suffolk counties. Brooklyn & Queens are boroughs of New York City and contain about half NYC's population. There used to be a lot of industry in Brooklyn & Queens with rr track in the streets. You can still find a little of it now if you know where to look.

Suffolk had a lot of farms during the steam era. Potatoes were shipped from Suffolk in FGE reefers.

Fish & sea food may have also been shipped from Suffolk county and/or NYC.

Apple & grapes are grown in the central part of New York state. I've seen a picture on an entire train of FGE reefers with these loadings on the LV.

Ed Mines