Five US Army Troop Cars
Did Rio Grande buy such cars for conversion to express, MOW or whatever?
Alex Schneider
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 10:27 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
On 27 Nov 2022, at 16:27, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
On Nov 27, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:
GaryAre those the kitchen cars ?Paul DoggettOn 27 Nov 2022, at 16:27, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
I never thought I would be consulting with a Army clothing expert to date RR photos.
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_355.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_356.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_357.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_358.jpg
-Hudson
Yes, they are troop kitchens. CB&Q bought a bunch and ran them as express cars with barred windows and Allied Trucks initially, then they plated over the windows and changed the trucks. After a while, the steam and signal lines were removed, and the cars were assigned to freight and MOW service.
I don’t know about D&RGW, but many roads bought surplus troop kitchens after the war to fill in for aged retired baggage cars until new ones could be built or bought.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 11:30 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
Gary
Are those the kitchen cars ?
Paul Doggett
On 27 Nov 2022, at 16:27, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
These cars are the troop sleepers. Seats converted into multi-level bunk beds, something like four bunks high.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 11:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
The photos were dated by date the cars were built, and when the US Army stopped issuing that style of shoe.
I never thought I would be consulting with a Army clothing expert to date RR photos.
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_355.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_356.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_357.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_358.jpg
-Hudson
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 11:40 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
| CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
On Nov 27, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:
Gary
Are those the kitchen cars ?Paul Doggett
On 27 Nov 2022, at 16:27, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 11:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
| CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
These cars are the troop sleepers. Seats converted into multi-level bunk beds, something like four bunks high.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Hudson Leighton
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 11:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
The photos were dated by date the cars were built, and when the US Army stopped issuing that style of shoe.
I never thought I would be consulting with a Army clothing expert to date RR photos.
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_355.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_356.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_357.jpg
http://www.nprha.org/BRHS/BRHS_467_1_358.jpg
-Hudson
1949, right?
FWIW there was a POW camp just north of Salt Lake City. German soldiers were shipped in from eastern ports. I have a vague recollection there were actual POW cars but I do not know if they were old Pullmans or these “War Emergency Pullmans”.
So 2 questions: Were there POW cars in the style shown in the photo? Given luxury accommodations weren’t high on the list of POW service would a POW load move in a freight train – a different sort of livestock load or as a passenger train?
Dave Nelson
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 8:27 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
You're kidding, right? The picture is 1949 while the war in Europe ended FOUR YEARS earlier. Wikipedia says that all were repatriated by early 1946. From what I've read elsewhere, transport of POWs was on par with transport of our own troops; coaches for day long trips, sleepers for longer trips, and I would imagine that included troop sleepers if that's what was available. Anyway, as others have said, the five cars in the photo were all kitchen cars, not sleepers.1949, right?
FWIW there was a POW camp just north of Salt Lake City. German soldiers were shipped in from eastern ports. I have a vague recollection there were actual POW cars but I do not know if they were old Pullmans or these “War Emergency Pullmans”.
Dennis Storzek
Dennis Storzek
Whatever else they were they weren’t transporting POWs. By 1949 German prisoners of war had been sent back to Europe. Some were repatriated, others forced to work in the UK and France for several more years, in violation of the Geneva Convention mandate for rapid repatriation. A handful escaped to avoid repatriation to Soviet-occupied areas.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_prisoners_of_war_in_the_United_States
Smaller numbers of Italian and Japanese prisoners were also repatriated.
Alex Schneider
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 8:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
1949, right?
FWIW there was a POW camp just north of Salt Lake City. German soldiers were shipped in from eastern ports. I have a vague recollection there were actual POW cars but I do not know if they were old Pullmans or these “War Emergency Pullmans”.
So 2 questions: Were there POW cars in the style shown in the photo? Given luxury accommodations weren’t high on the list of POW service would a POW load move in a freight train – a different sort of livestock load or as a passenger train?
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 8:27 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 7:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
| CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
1949, right?
FWIW there was a POW camp just north of Salt Lake City. German soldiers were shipped in from eastern ports. I have a vague recollection there were actual POW cars but I do not know if they were old Pullmans or these “War Emergency Pullmans”.
So 2 questions: Were there POW cars in the style shown in the photo? Given luxury accommodations weren’t high on the list of POW service would a POW load move in a freight train – a different sort of livestock load or as a passenger train?
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 8:27 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
They are seen moving in a freight in 1949, complete with their Allied Full Cushion trucks:
Gary Laakso
CB&Q 40' steel boxcar
Pullman Hollywood Beach (assuming for guards)
GM&O 215 coach
CB&Q 4476 coach (there appears to be 3 identical Q clerestory-roof coaches following this car, with another 3 similar cars visible at the end of the train)
Andy L.
Madison, WI
Sorry. I do know when WWII ended. I wrongly assumed everyone would understand I was speaking of the past. Another example of why “write so as not to be misunderstood” is good advice.
Sorry for the confusion.
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2022 7:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Five US Army Troop Cars
On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 08:00 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:
1949, right?
FWIW there was a POW camp just north of Salt Lake City. German soldiers were shipped in from eastern ports. I have a vague recollection there were actual POW cars but I do not know if they were old Pullmans or these “War Emergency Pullmans”.
You're kidding, right? The picture is 1949 while the war in Europe ended FOUR YEARS earlier. Wikipedia says that all were repatriated by early 1946. From what I've read elsewhere, transport of POWs was on par with transport of our own troops; coaches for day long trips, sleepers for longer trips, and I would imagine that included troop sleepers if that's what was available. Anyway, as others have said, the five cars in the photo were all kitchen cars, not sleepers.
Dennis Storzek
Dennis Storzek
Ken Vandevoort