GM&O GSC 43' Flat Car Build, Bloomington Shops 1951


Josh
 

I think everybody is a bit confused here. Most of the photographs actually depict the standard 42'6" flatcars that were used in Caterpillar service. From what I have been told, GM&O listed them as 41' flatcars because they measured to the edges of the wood deck rather than total usable space. There are one or two photographs in that list that are not GSC cars, but probably more likely depict rebuilds of cars from other builders. I don't see any 53'6" cars in the photo group.

ExactRail's GSC flatcars are the correct model to represent these.

Josh B


Tim O'Connor
 

but which of the Exactrail cars? wasn't there more than one version?

On 10/21/2021 3:18 PM, Josh wrote:

I think everybody is a bit confused here. Most of the photographs actually depict the standard 42'6" flatcars that were used in Caterpillar service. From what I have been told, GM&O listed them as 41' flatcars because they measured to the edges of the wood deck rather than total usable space. There are one or two photographs in that list that are not GSC cars, but probably more likely depict rebuilds of cars from other builders. I don't see any 53'6" cars in the photo group.

ExactRail's GSC flatcars are the correct model to represent these.

Josh B
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


David
 

but which of the Exactrail cars? wasn't there more than one version?
By fortuitous coincidence, these UP flats are essentially identical to the GM&O cars in question:

https://exactrail.com/products/gsc-42-flat-car-up-1951-as-delivered

David Thompson


Tim O'Connor
 

I have the UP on my workbench. I put support under the deck pieces to bring them up to the
level of the steel braces. The too-thin decks are an eyesore.

Tim O'Connor

On 10/21/2021 6:08 PM, David via groups.io wrote:
but which of the Exactrail cars? wasn't there more than one version?
By fortuitous coincidence, these UP flats are essentially identical to the GM&O cars in question:

https://exactrail.com/products/gsc-42-flat-car-up-1951-as-delivered

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Josh
 

The thin decks are a deficiency that has since been fixed. There is no reason to worry about it on future runs - the GSI 53'6" bulkhead flatcars had the new decks and I am told that future releases of the standard flatcar will also have deck sheets of the correct thickness.

If it wasn't obvious by the title of my message, yes, we are referring to what ExactRail called the 42' flatcar. It's actually slightly longer, since 42' is the length of usable deck that Union Pacific listed in their rosters and ORER entries. The GM&O car is exactly the same, but they measured to end of the wood planking instead of ends of the entire deck including the steel framing hence being called a "41-foot car".

Josh B


Matt Smith
 

My apologies if these show the 70,000 series cars. I was aware of the building of the 72,000 series 53' 6" cars by the GM&O shops in Feb and Mar of 51'. Regardless the car builds/pics would have been nearly identical. GSC castings arriving on flat cars and recycled components and decking applied. 
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


mopacfirst
 

I have a more general question.

First, the technology for pouring castings 60' or more long, or something as complicated as a locomotive frame, barely exists today.  Partly, that's because of the growth of welding  and its related NDE techniques as a fabrication method.  Regardless, those are pretty impressive steel castings.

I presume the railroad drilled all the holes for stirrup steps, route card boards, and so forth.  Did that include the couple of hundred holes for anchoring the decking?  More to the point, can someone point me to detail photos of the castings in progress at GSC?

When I was young and had a summer job, I drilled 96 holes in 1/2" steel plate one day, to join two halves of a building together -- think double-wide.  took me all day.  I started at the bottom of one end, and I was so happy when I reached the opposite side and started on the lower, more reachable, parts.  Took me the entire day.  I think it was an electric drill, not a pneumatic.

Ron Merrick


Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 06:23 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
I presume the railroad drilled all the holes for stirrup steps, route card boards, and so forth.  Did that include the couple of hundred holes for anchoring the decking?  More to the point, can someone point me to detail photos of the castings in progress at GSC?
I would assume they were cast in. This picture:
http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll56/id/7258/rec/9
Seems to have been taken right after unloading, and if you zoom in close to the nearest frame, the deck holes are already present.

Dennis Storzek


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Dennis and List Members,
 
Dennis wrote: "if you zoom in close to the nearest frame, the deck holes are already present"
 
As are holes in the stake pockets and other locations.
 
Dennis further wrote: "I would assume they were cast in"
 
If they were cast in, that would indicate that the mold material would be trapped against the car body casting and also in the holes themselves. I suspect there would be a high rate of mold failures where the holes are supposed to end up being, no?
 
I would suggest the possibility that the casting was poured without any special accomodation for the holes, and when removed from the mold the holes were drilled at the foundry prior to shipping. The foundry could have a set of pre-made jigs to properly locate the drill and therefore the holes, speeding the process when a large number of castings need to be drilled identically
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GM&O GSC 43' Flat Car Build, Bloomington Shops 1951

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 06:23 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
I presume the railroad drilled all the holes for stirrup steps, route card boards, and so forth.  Did that include the couple of hundred holes for anchoring the decking?  More to the point, can someone point me to detail photos of the castings in progress at GSC?
I would assume they were cast in. This picture:
http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll56/id/7258/rec/9
Seems to have been taken right after unloading, and if you zoom in close to the nearest frame, the deck holes are already present.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 



GSC castings had MANY holes in them... maybe their abilities had something to do with their success


On 10/23/2021 10:10 AM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:

Hi Dennis and List Members,
 
Dennis wrote: "if you zoom in close to the nearest frame, the deck holes are already present"
 
As are holes in the stake pockets and other locations.
 
Dennis further wrote: "I would assume they were cast in"
 
If they were cast in, that would indicate that the mold material would be trapped against the car body casting and also in the holes themselves. I suspect there would be a high rate of mold failures where the holes are supposed to end up being, no?
 
I would suggest the possibility that the casting was poured without any special accomodation for the holes, and when removed from the mold the holes were drilled at the foundry prior to shipping. The foundry could have a set of pre-made jigs to properly locate the drill and therefore the holes, speeding the process when a large number of castings need to be drilled identically
 
Claus Schlund
 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


mopacfirst
 

If these were sand castings, even with resin binder as is common now, it might be kind of tricky to insert that many cores for the holes.

I still wonder if there are photos of the casting process.  I've been in lots of foundries pouring pressure castings, which are not that different from flatcars in terms of the technique, but we might be able to get a clue if we can approach an existing one.  I'll look around in central Kansas.

Ron Merrick


Richard Townsend
 

Does anyone know if these cars are to be available again soon?


On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Josh <segorailroadmodels@...> wrote:



The thin decks are a deficiency that has since been fixed. There is no reason to worry about it on future runs - the GSI 53'6" bulkhead flatcars had the new decks and I am told that future releases of the standard flatcar will also have deck sheets of the correct thickness.

If it wasn't obvious by the title of my message, yes, we are referring to what ExactRail called the 42' flatcar. It's actually slightly longer, since 42' is the length of usable deck that Union Pacific listed in their rosters and ORER entries. The GM&O car is exactly the same, but they measured to end of the wood planking instead of ends of the entire deck including the steel framing hence being called a "41-foot car".

Josh B


Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 07:10 AM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
I would suggest the possibility that the casting was poured without any special accomodation for the holes, and when removed from the mold the holes were drilled at the foundry prior to shipping. The foundry could have a set of pre-made jigs to properly locate the drill and therefore the holes, speeding the process when a large number of castings need to be drilled identically
Yeah, it would be work for a BIG radial drill, but no matter how big, the frame would have to be shifted multiple times. The advantage of a radial drill is for fine adjustment; the heavy part only needs to be shifted for gross positioning, and the drill easily adjusted to hit the spot, so to speak.

Dennis Storzek