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Gondola scrap load question

Jim Mischke

#199674

These days, we a blessed with some fabulous gondola HO models. Most of them seem to be end door versions. Tangent, Proto2K, Walthers, Westerfield. B&O guy talking. Some prototype investigation suggests that fixed end gondolas were more common.

For now, I'll go with the flow with available models. Question is: were end door gondolas commonly used in scrap service? In my Pittsburgh theme, I get to have some scrap gondolas and non-ferrous ore/smeltings as open loads or empties. Is this credible?

I would think bulk or scrap loads would be very hard on prototype end doors. Steel shapes, parts, castings and machinery would be placed with some care for damage control, although not for the gondola's benefit.

There are trade journal articles with shop kinks on how to persuade a bent end door back into shape. So abuse was rampant.

Dave Wetterstroem

#199676

I'm a C&O guy, the scrap loads I have seen have mostly been fixed end gondolas.

Schuyler Larrabee

#199677

Nice photo, Dave. Is the first digit a 1 or a 4?

Schuyler

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Wetterstroem
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 8:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola scrap load question

I'm a C&O guy, the scrap loads I have seen have mostly been fixed end gondolas.

BRIAN PAUL EHNI

#199678

Blowing it up to 300%, I think it’s a “4”.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 9:43 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola scrap load question

Nice photo, Dave. Is the first digit a 1 or a 4?

Schuyler

Show quoted text

I'm a C&O guy, the scrap loads I have seen have mostly been fixed end gondolas.

BRIAN PAUL EHNI

#199679

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "BRIAN PAUL EHNI via groups.io" <bpehni@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 9:46 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola scrap load question

Blowing it up to 300%, I think it’s a “4”.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

Nice photo, Dave. Is the first digit a 1 or a 4?

Schuyler

Show quoted text

I'm a C&O guy, the scrap loads I have seen have mostly been fixed end gondolas.

Schuyler Larrabee

#199680

Thanks, Brian. Even blown up (though less than 300%) I wasn’t quite sure.

Schuyler

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 10:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola scrap load question

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

Blowing it up to 300%, I think it’s a “4”.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

Nice photo, Dave. Is the first digit a 1 or a 4?

Schuyler

I'm a C&O guy, the scrap loads I have seen have mostly been fixed end gondolas.

Eric Hansmann

#199688

Jim,

I think your gondola observations are biased towards the areas you review most frequently. I know Pittsburgh and the B&O are your main focus. The B&O served many industrial cities that were also served by the Pennsy, New York Central and other lines (Reading, Lackawanna, Erie, etc.). The drop-end gondolas were designated as suitable for the mill trade by the MCB/ARA/AAR over the years. They were very common among those railroads noted previously.

Several of these companies had a sizeable number of composite gondolas with drop ends. The Pennsy GR and GRa class cars come to mind. These type of gons were more apparent before the 1940s, too, especially on the B&O, DL&W, and the NYC.

If we move out west, we see a different regional fleet. The Santa Fe had thousands of Caswell design gondolas. The SP had a large fleet of solid end general purpose gondolas. Moving into the midwest, several lines preferred solid end gondolas with drop bottom doors for unloading. Rock Island, Chicago Burlington & Quincy, Illinois Central, Northern Pacific, Missouri Pacific, Milwaukee Road, and others come to mind.

Many southeastern lines had a similar mix. Louisville & Nashville, Southern, Chesapeake & Ohio, and the Norfolk & Western used gondolas for hauling coal as well as general service. All these lines had some mill gondolas, but the solid end gons dominated the rosters.

The recent HO scale plastic mill and general purpose gondola model offerings are very nice but hardly scratch the surface of the real number of prototype designs that were employed over the years.

Eric Hansmann
Philadelphia, Penna.

Show quoted text

On 03/14/2023 7:54 PM EDT Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:

These days, we a blessed with some fabulous gondola HO models. Most of them seem to be end door versions. Tangent, Proto2K, Walthers, Westerfield. B&O guy talking. Some prototype investigation suggests that fixed end gondolas were more common.

For now, I'll go with the flow with available models. Question is: were end door gondolas commonly used in scrap service? In my Pittsburgh theme, I get to have some scrap gondolas and non-ferrous ore/smeltings as open loads or empties. Is this credible?

I would think bulk or scrap loads would be very hard on prototype end doors. Steel shapes, parts, castings and machinery would be placed with some care for damage control, although not for the gondola's benefit.

There are trade journal articles with shop kinks on how to persuade a bent end door back into shape. So abuse was rampant.

Tim O'Connor

#199689

I have 66 images of gondolas with scrap loads. Six of them have drop ends, and 5 of those are
either USRA design gondolas or similar (e.g. one 45 foot) gondolas. Only one is a 52-6 gondola.

There are far too few models for postwar fixed end gondolas until you get to the 1970's and later.
Because there were so many unique or at least uncommon designs for them. Same problem with
tank cars.

On 3/14/2023 8:32 PM, Dave Wetterstroem wrote:

Show quoted text

I'm a C&O guy, the scrap loads I have seen have mostly been fixed end gondolas.
Attachments:

CO-41205.jpg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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