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Granite shipped in an open hopper

Robert G P

#199857

Hello everyone,

I found a Georgia Railroad hopper from my (early) youth id like to put on the club layout as a car loaded with Granite, as from when I lived in Ga I recall seeing a lot of history about the granite industry out of Stone Mountain, a place I have spent much time and that helped anchor my love of trains.

Just curious if granite is realistically to have been shipped in an open hopper? I do know that the Stone Mountain quarries were among the nation's largest suppliers of granite in the early 20th century.

Thanks,

Rob

Todd Sullivan

#199858

Rob,

I am only familiar with granite operations on Cape Ann (north of Boston) in Massachusetts. There used to be a large number of quarries that cut and shipped granite blocks for building construction, foundations and curbing in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Since the blocks were cut to particular dimensions, I think that most of them were shipped on the B&M Railroad out of Rockport MA in gondolas or on flatcars. Piling a bunch of nicely cut granite blocks into a hopper would likely affect the ultimate quality of the product due to chipping and breakage, and probably the quality of the hopper after the trip.

People more familiar with the Stone Mountain operation should chime in.

I hope this helps.

Todd Sullivan

spsalso

#199859

I think shipping granite in slabs in a hopper car wouldn't happen. The slabs need some really good and proper support so they don't crack.

I suppose large "chunks", but I think the corners of the granite would tend to punch holes in the car; plus the pieces might vibrate down and get locked in.

Maybe something like granite "chips", though. Maybe even for ballast??

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Richard Townsend

#199860

Crushed granite is, and I assume was, used for various landscaping purposes, in driveways, and probably just about anywhere crushed stone is used. I imagine companies that cut stone for architectural and other purposes generate substantial amounts of waste rock, and some might crush the waste and sell it as another revenue source.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 22, 2023 2:22 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Granite shipped in an open hopper

Hello everyone,

Thanks,

Rob

Tim O'Connor

#199862

Crushed granite absolutely can travel in hopper cars. Granite slabs, absolutely never.
Loads of granite are still shipped by rail from New England, in 100 ton mill gondolas.

On 3/22/2023 6:02 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:

Show quoted text

Crushed granite is, and I assume was, used for various landscaping purposes, in driveways, and probably just about anywhere crushed stone is used. I imagine companies that cut stone for architectural and other purposes generate substantial amounts of waste rock, and some might crush the waste and sell it as another revenue source.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>

I found a Georgia Railroad hopper from my (early) youth id like to put on the club layout as a car loaded with Granite, as from when I lived in Ga I recall seeing a lot of history about the granite industry out of Stone Mountain, a place I have spent much time and that helped anchor my love of trains.

Just curious if granite is realistically to have been shipped in an open hopper? I do know that the Stone Mountain quarries were among the nation's largest suppliers of granite in the early 20th century.

Thanks,

Rob

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Louie B. Hydrick

#199869

Greetings,

The Georgia Railroad (and successor CSX still does) shipped a tremendous amount of crushed or screened granite stone from quarries around Camak GA and Sparta GA among other smaller locations. Also shipped lots of Riprap.

The stone was used, and still is used for railroad ballast on local lines.

Especially after WWII, Most of the stone from these particular quarries went for construction and landscape uses in addition to rail uses. Not aware of any being used for slabs from the quarries around Camak in this period.

After WWII Most granite blocks and slabs I am aware were sourced from quarries up around Toccoa GA and and along a belt closer to or North of the Seaboard Air Line from Greenwood SC to Atlanta to Birmingham, and stretching north to the Tennessee Border.

Louie B. Hydrick

Associate Broker

RE/MAX Reinvented

130 N. Belair Road

Evans GA 30809-3261

706-832-6263 Mobile

706-993-1133 Office

706-993-1132 Fax

www.csrahomesandland.com

Robert G P

#199871

Thanks so much! Now this will be even funner to work on.

-Rob

Show quoted text

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:10 PM Louie B. Hydrick via groups.io <land46lord=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Greetings,

The Georgia Railroad (and successor CSX still does) shipped a tremendous amount of crushed or screened granite stone from quarries around Camak GA and Sparta GA among other smaller locations. Also shipped lots of Riprap.

The stone was used, and still is used for railroad ballast on local lines.

Especially after WWII, Most of the stone from these particular quarries went for construction and landscape uses in addition to rail uses. Not aware of any being used for slabs from the quarries around Camak in this period.

After WWII Most granite blocks and slabs I am aware were sourced from quarries up around Toccoa GA and and along a belt closer to or North of the Seaboard Air Line from Greenwood SC to Atlanta to Birmingham, and stretching north to the Tennessee Border.

Louie B. Hydrick

Associate Broker

RE/MAX Reinvented

130 N. Belair Road

Evans GA 30809-3261

706-832-6263 Mobile

706-993-1133 Office

706-993-1132 Fax

www.csrahomesandland.com

Robert G P

#199872

Thanks to all!

Yes I imagine any blocked etc. granite would have gone out in boxcars/gondolas or flats.

My project would be composed of something loose that would have been put in a hopper. The landscaping use and other plausible ideas are really good excuses to see the load anywhere.

There is a place out in the woods by me where apparently a lot of tiles have been dumped. Maybe I can get some true granite to make the load.

Best regards,

Rob

Show quoted text

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:26 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Crushed granite absolutely can travel in hopper cars. Granite slabs, absolutely never.
Loads of granite are still shipped by rail from New England, in 100 ton mill gondolas.

On 3/22/2023 6:02 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:

Crushed granite is, and I assume was, used for various landscaping purposes, in driveways, and probably just about anywhere crushed stone is used. I imagine companies that cut stone for architectural and other purposes generate substantial amounts of waste rock, and some might crush the waste and sell it as another revenue source.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>

I found a Georgia Railroad hopper from my (early) youth id like to put on the club layout as a car loaded with Granite, as from when I lived in Ga I recall seeing a lot of history about the granite industry out of Stone Mountain, a place I have spent much time and that helped anchor my love of trains.

Just curious if granite is realistically to have been shipped in an open hopper? I do know that the Stone Mountain quarries were among the nation's largest suppliers of granite in the early 20th century.

Thanks,

Rob

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Richard Townsend

#199873

You can buy crushed granite at stores like Home Depot or Ace Hardware, where it's sometimes sold as "paver sand." It's actually decomposed granite. A big bag sells for very little, and it's great for track ballast. Stores that sell chicken feed also sell crushed granite as "chicken grit." You can even get it from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Peck-Feeds-Supplement-Ducklings/dp/B014RYWRTQ/ref=asc_df_B014RYWRTQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312089884791&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7122879125726125016&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033004&hvtargid=pla-569398834309&psc=1

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 22, 2023 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Granite shipped in an open hopper

Thanks to all!

Yes I imagine any blocked etc. granite would have gone out in boxcars/gondolas or flats.

My project would be composed of something loose that would have been put in a hopper. The landscaping use and other plausible ideas are really good excuses to see the load anywhere.

There is a place out in the woods by me where apparently a lot of tiles have been dumped. Maybe I can get some true granite to make the load.

Best regards,

Rob

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:26 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Crushed granite absolutely can travel in hopper cars. Granite slabs, absolutely never.
Loads of granite are still shipped by rail from New England, in 100 ton mill gondolas.

On 3/22/2023 6:02 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:

Crushed granite is, and I assume was, used for various landscaping purposes, in driveways, and probably just about anywhere crushed stone is used. I imagine companies that cut stone for architectural and other purposes generate substantial amounts of waste rock, and some might crush the waste and sell it as another revenue source.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>

I found a Georgia Railroad hopper from my (early) youth id like to put on the club layout as a car loaded with Granite, as from when I lived in Ga I recall seeing a lot of history about the granite industry out of Stone Mountain, a place I have spent much time and that helped anchor my love of trains.

Just curious if granite is realistically to have been shipped in an open hopper? I do know that the Stone Mountain quarries were among the nation's largest suppliers of granite in the early 20th century.

Thanks,

Rob

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Charles Weston

#199880

It's a nit, but crushed granite and decomposed granite are not the same. They have different looks.

Charles Weston

San Antonio

On Thursday, March 23, 2023, 12:30:48 AM CDT, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 22, 2023 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Granite shipped in an open hopper

Thanks to all!

Yes I imagine any blocked etc. granite would have gone out in boxcars/gondolas or flats.

My project would be composed of something loose that would have been put in a hopper. The landscaping use and other plausible ideas are really good excuses to see the load anywhere.

There is a place out in the woods by me where apparently a lot of tiles have been dumped. Maybe I can get some true granite to make the load.

Best regards,

Rob

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:26 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Crushed granite absolutely can travel in hopper cars. Granite slabs, absolutely never.
Loads of granite are still shipped by rail from New England, in 100 ton mill gondolas.

On 3/22/2023 6:02 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:

Crushed granite is, and I assume was, used for various landscaping purposes, in driveways, and probably just about anywhere crushed stone is used. I imagine companies that cut stone for architectural and other purposes generate substantial amounts of waste rock, and some might crush the waste and sell it as another revenue source.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>

I found a Georgia Railroad hopper from my (early) youth id like to put on the club layout as a car loaded with Granite, as from when I lived in Ga I recall seeing a lot of history about the granite industry out of Stone Mountain, a place I have spent much time and that helped anchor my love of trains.

Just curious if granite is realistically to have been shipped in an open hopper? I do know that the Stone Mountain quarries were among the nation's largest suppliers of granite in the early 20th century.

Thanks,

Rob

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Gary Bechdol

#199882

Don't forget that most railroad ballast (at least in the Southeast) is granite, and granite is used as the coarse aggregate in asphalt and concrete paving.

Gary Bechdol

Stone Mountain, GA

Show quoted text

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 8:31 AM Charles Weston <rotary-oy@...> wrote:

It's a nit, but crushed granite and decomposed granite are not the same. They have different looks.

Charles Weston
San Antonio

On Thursday, March 23, 2023, 12:30:48 AM CDT, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:

You can buy crushed granite at stores like Home Depot or Ace Hardware, where it's sometimes sold as "paver sand." It's actually decomposed granite. A big bag sells for very little, and it's great for track ballast. Stores that sell chicken feed also sell crushed granite as "chicken grit." You can even get it from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Peck-Feeds-Supplement-Ducklings/dp/B014RYWRTQ/ref=asc_df_B014RYWRTQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312089884791&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7122879125726125016&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033004&hvtargid=pla-569398834309&psc=1

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 22, 2023 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Granite shipped in an open hopper

Thanks to all!

Yes I imagine any blocked etc. granite would have gone out in boxcars/gondolas or flats.

My project would be composed of something loose that would have been put in a hopper. The landscaping use and other plausible ideas are really good excuses to see the load anywhere.

There is a place out in the woods by me where apparently a lot of tiles have been dumped. Maybe I can get some true granite to make the load.

Best regards,

Rob

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:26 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Crushed granite absolutely can travel in hopper cars. Granite slabs, absolutely never.
Loads of granite are still shipped by rail from New England, in 100 ton mill gondolas.

On 3/22/2023 6:02 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:

Crushed granite is, and I assume was, used for various landscaping purposes, in driveways, and probably just about anywhere crushed stone is used. I imagine companies that cut stone for architectural and other purposes generate substantial amounts of waste rock, and some might crush the waste and sell it as another revenue source.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>

I found a Georgia Railroad hopper from my (early) youth id like to put on the club layout as a car loaded with Granite, as from when I lived in Ga I recall seeing a lot of history about the granite industry out of Stone Mountain, a place I have spent much time and that helped anchor my love of trains.

Just curious if granite is realistically to have been shipped in an open hopper? I do know that the Stone Mountain quarries were among the nation's largest suppliers of granite in the early 20th century.

Thanks,

Rob

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Charles Etheredge

#199887

There was and still is a huge amount of granite west of Austin, Texas, in the hill country. In the past, hundreds of loads of granite was hauled out on the TNO ( SP). First, to build the state capital building and then later to build the giant sea wall on the gulf coast to protect against hurricanes. All of that granite was huge stones, carried on flat cars, out of Marble Falls Tx. Called Granite Mtn., it can still be seen , just west of Marble falls.

Ken Adams

#199890

Pardon the current (2023) rather than steam era reference but Granite Rock Company stone was just used to fill and rebuild flooded trackage at Watsonville Junction California. A rather short move (about 2 miles) from the nearby Logan and the Aromas quarry.
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Jim Mischke

#199894

Granite shipped in a hopper car would have to be self clearing. Much railroad ballast is granite. Granite is a low-priced transportation commodity and would come from local sources. In other words, an SP&S hopper would be unlikely in Georgia.

Your hopper idea is a sound one.

Some considerations for your hopper car and load:

- No matter the granite particle size, granite's density and bulk density (which includes spaces in between chunks) are both far greater than coal, for which most hopper cars were sized. Anything over 1/3 full would overload the hopper car's bearings.

- Concentrate the granite heaps over the trucks.

- Stone loading batters the heck out of any hopper car cross members. Bent or broken cross members degrade the car's rigidity, profile, and clearances. Prototype railroads removed the cross members beforehand or used hopper cars with side supporting gussets.

- Avoid white as an aggregate load color. If white is desirable, use a very light gray for model railroad layouts. True white and true black do not look right under basement lighting.

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)

#199895

Hi List Members,

With respect to shipping stone loads - granite or otherwise - perhaps the attached image will provide some inspiration...

Enjoy!

Claus Schlund

Charles Weston

#199896

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

Charles Weston

On Thursday, March 23, 2023, 04:44:28 PM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,

With respect to shipping stone loads - granite or otherwise - perhaps
the attached image will provide some inspiration...

Enjoy!

Claus Schlund

Attachments:
IC_95954_40ft_composite_gon_with_quarry_stone_load_12296461825_0592dd6f84_o.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/199895/0

Andy Carlson

#199897

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 02:11:19 PM PDT, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:

In other words, an SP&S hopper would be unlikely in Georgia.

*****Especially since the SP&S did not roster a single hopper!*********

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

Your hopper idea is a sound one.

John Monrad

#199898

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 05:28 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 02:11:19 PM PDT, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:

In other words, an SP&S hopper would be unlikely in Georgia.

*****Especially since the SP&S did not roster a single hopper!*********

... other than Rogers Selective hoppers SP&S 21000-21024...

John Monrad

Tim O'Connor

#199902

On 3/23/2023 11:48 PM, John Monrad wrote:

Show quoted text

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 05:28 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 02:11:19 PM PDT, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:

In other words, an SP&S hopper would be unlikely in Georgia.

*****Especially since the SP&S did not roster a single hopper!*********

... other than Rogers Selective hoppers SP&S 21000-21024...

John Monrad

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Andy Carlson

#199909

Ballast hoppers would not go off-line, so for interchange service, the SP&S had no hoppers.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 06:33:38 AM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

On 3/23/2023 11:48 PM, John Monrad wrote:

Show quoted text

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 05:28 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 02:11:19 PM PDT, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:

In other words, an SP&S hopper would be unlikely in Georgia.

*****Especially since the SP&S did not roster a single hopper!*********

... other than Rogers Selective hoppers SP&S 21000-21024...

John Monrad

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