Topics

GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era


Robert kirkham
 

In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening.  I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either.  But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the  441311- 441499.  Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940.   The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”  

The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”.  They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening.   The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit).   So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.  

I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means.  The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.

Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.  

I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door.   But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors.    Other photos from that series have no end doors.  So its a bit of a mixed bag.

465000-465249

XM

Boxcar

250

7/1934-4/1973

40.6

9.0

6.0

3098

PSC

12/23-1/24

Stl. frame. x581000-581999 series /33-/34 (465186-465249 vacant?).


I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.

Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!

Rob


Steve and Barb Hile
 

The January 1954 edition of the ORER lists 150 cars in the series 441000-441499  with 67 having extreme outside width of 10’7” while the remainder were 11’.  All have 6 foot door openings.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:06 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era

 

In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening.  I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either.  But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the  441311- 441499.  Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940.   The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”  

 

The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”.  They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening.   The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit).   So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.  

 

I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means.  The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.

 

Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.  

 

I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door.   But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors.    Other photos from that series have no end doors.  So its a bit of a mixed bag.

465000-465249

XM

Boxcar

250

7/1934-4/1973

40.6

9.0

6.0

3098

PSC

12/23-1/24

Stl. frame. x581000-581999 series /33-/34 (465186-465249 vacant?).

 

I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.

 

Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!

 

Rob


Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for pointing that out Steve.  It’s an interesting clue. The Jan. 1953 ORER includes 151 cars, and not TT spells out which of those had the wider and narrower extreme width.  I assume its an indication of the door latch mechanism, or ladders, but not at all clear,

This morning I reviewed the ’53 ORER for 7’ door steel frame cars in the CV roster - again - nothing shows up.  

Rob 

On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:44 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

The January 1954 edition of the ORER lists 150 cars in the series 441000-441499  with 67 having extreme outside width of 10’7” while the remainder were 11’.  All have 6 foot door openings.
 
Steve Hile
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:06 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era
 
In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening.  I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either.  But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the  441311- 441499.  Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940.   The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”  
 
The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”.  They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening.   The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit).   So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.  
 
I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means.  The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.
 
Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.  
 
I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door.   But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors.    Other photos from that series have no end doors.  So its a bit of a mixed bag.

465000-465249

XM

Boxcar

250

7/1934-4/1973

40.6

9.0

6.0

3098

PSC

12/23-1/24

Stl. frame. x581000-581999 series /33-/34 (465186-465249 vacant?).

 
I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.
 
Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!
 
Rob