Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings


 

Greetings,

I am attempting to ID a tank car partially visible in a photo from 12/31/1959 shot at Georgetown Junction on the B&O. I model the Georgetown Branch in a slightly earlier era but am very interested in the tank car, as there was a water filtration plant on the line which received chlorine and I would like to model this car if possible. My first question is what is the make/type/details of the prototype, and second, are(were) there any models available of this particular prototype?

Here is a detail shot:


Here is the source image from my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cpl_clegg/23844231798/in/album-72157661477078718/

As far as markings on the car, here is what I can make out:

WESTVACO CHL[ORINE]
FOOD MACHINERY & 
SOUTH CHARLES[TON, WV]

LEASED TO
WESTVACO CO...

OUTER CA? OF TANK
453? ? LBS

Any help would be much appreciated!

 -Ben

--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Todd Sullivan
 

Ben, 

It is most likely an ICC 105W300 class tank car of approximately 11,000 gallons capacity.  Similar models in HO are made by Kadee and Atlas.  One other capacity is the 6,000 gallon model made by Broadway Limited.  Both are 'pressure' tank cars, as the chlorine was shipped under pressure as a liquid.  Other tank car experts are welcome to comment on and improve my answer.

PS - there were a number of chemical companies in the Charleston WV area.  I'm more familiar with the companies on the north (NYC) side of the Kanawha River than on the south (C&O) side.

Todd Sullivan


Steve and Barb Hile
 

The water weight in pounds stenciled under the platform seems to start with 4

 

 

This aligns with those stenciled on the BLI 6000 gallon tank cars.  The 11,000 gallon cars from Atlas and Kadee have that number at nearly 90,000 lbs.

 

So, if I were doing this, I would use the BLI model.  Then, all you need are decals.  :>)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

 

Greetings,

I am attempting to ID a tank car partially visible in a photo from 12/31/1959 shot at Georgetown Junction on the B&O. I model the Georgetown Branch in a slightly earlier era but am very interested in the tank car, as there was a water filtration plant on the line which received chlorine and I would like to model this car if possible. My first question is what is the make/type/details of the prototype, and second, are(were) there any models available of this particular prototype?

Here is a detail shot:


Here is the source image from my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cpl_clegg/23844231798/in/album-72157661477078718/

As far as markings on the car, here is what I can make out:

WESTVACO CHL[ORINE]
FOOD MACHINERY & 
SOUTH CHARLES[TON, WV]

LEASED TO
WESTVACO CO...

OUTER CA? OF TANK
453? ? LBS

Any help would be much appreciated!

 -Ben

--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


 

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate the insight. I am hoping a decent image of this livery surfaces so I can attempt to draw the artwork for some decals. I now have a starting point at least. Now, to find those elusive unlettered BLI cars... https://www.broadway-limited.com/61286000gallontankcarunletteredpaintedlightgray4-packho-1.aspx

Again, thanks!
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Dave Parker
 

I'm with Steve.  It's most likely a smaller car; 6000 gallons is a reasonable guess.

Those 11,000-gal ICC 105 cars were used for "light" commodities like anhydrous ammonia and propane.  Liquid chlorine is 50% denser than water, which is why it was carried in small cars.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


 

Ben,

This car would have been assigned to/shipped from the Westvaco chloralkali facility at South Charleston, WV. That facility began life as the Warner-Klipstein Chemical Company around 1915, was acquired by Westvaco in the very early 1920s, and later by FMC (Food Machinery & Chemical Corp.) in 1948. 

I've seen other photos of cars in this dual WestVaCo/FMC scheme in the past, but I'm drawing a blank as to where, and don't have any saved off in my project folder for Carbide/FMC. I'll dredge through my dead-tree notes sometime this week and see if something surfaces. It's entirely likely the photos I'm thinking of were in regional history books. Not likely to be better quality, but might at least be enough to get reporting marks. 

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars.
 Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

--
Andy Cummings
Houston, TX


Tim O'Connor
 


No need to guess, really. The "49000" (ballpark) water lbs stencil works out to approx 6,000 gallons.


On 6/23/2021 2:05 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
I'm with Steve.  It's most likely a smaller car; 6000 gallons is a reasonable guess.

Those 11,000-gal ICC 105 cars were used for "light" commodities like anhydrous ammonia and propane.  Liquid chlorine is 50% denser than water, which is why it was carried in small cars.
--
Dave Parker

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Ed Hawkins
 



On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Andy Cummings <andy.w.cummings@...> wrote:

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars. Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

Andy & Ben,
The earlier lettering clue by the side ladder of approx. 45,xxx pounds of water equates to a nominal 6,000-gallon capacity, a common size for chlorine tank cars. I did a search of ACF tank cars built from the mid-1920s thru the early 1950s but didn’t find any matches of 6,000 gallon, ARA V or ICC-105A cars originally owned by Westvaco or leased from SHPX Shippers’ Car Line and lettered accordingly. If not an ACF car, perhaps it was built by General American.

Westvaco Chorine Products Corp. and Westvaco Chemical Division, leased 38 SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO covered hopper cars built from 5-47 to 6-51 (see RP CYC Vol. 27). Roughly 30 years ago I coordinated with Microscale, who produced decal set #87-660 that included lettering for these Westvaco LO’s and 4 plant locations to include South Charleston, W.V. 

I’m curious if anyone can determine an estimated date of the photo. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Tim O'Connor
 


Here is a 1957 photo showing the Westvaco + FMC lettering. Eventually soda ash out of Green River
became an enormous commodity for the UP.

Tim O'Connor

On 6/23/2021 4:16 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:
On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Andy Cummings <andy.w.cummings@...> wrote:

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars. Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

Andy & Ben,
The earlier lettering clue by the side ladder of approx. 45,xxx pounds of water equates to a nominal 6,000-gallon capacity, a common size for chlorine tank cars. I did a search of ACF tank cars built from the mid-1920s thru the early 1950s but didn’t find any matches of 6,000 gallon, ARA V or ICC-105A cars originally owned by Westvaco or leased from SHPX Shippers’ Car Line and lettered accordingly. If not an ACF car, perhaps it was built by General American.

Westvaco Chorine Products Corp. and Westvaco Chemical Division, leased 38 SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO covered hopper cars built from 5-47 to 6-51 (see RP CYC Vol. 27). Roughly 30 years ago I coordinated with Microscale, who produced decal set #87-660 that included lettering for these Westvaco LO’s and 4 plant locations to include South Charleston, W.V. 

I’m curious if anyone can determine an estimated date of the photo. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Allan Smith
 

There is a photo of a 10,000 gal car WESTVACO on page 52 of Tank Cars AC&F by Ed Kaminski. But the car you are looking for is on page 96 of AC&F 1899-1999 by Ed Kaminski  It is an 8000 gal car ICC 103-W SHPX 4733 lot 2257 built 8-41.


Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021, 01:28:18 PM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Here is a 1957 photo showing the Westvaco + FMC lettering. Eventually soda ash out of Green River
became an enormous commodity for the UP.

Tim O'Connor

On 6/23/2021 4:16 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Andy Cummings <andy.w.cummings@...> wrote:

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars. Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

Andy & Ben,
The earlier lettering clue by the side ladder of approx. 45,xxx pounds of water equates to a nominal 6,000-gallon capacity, a common size for chlorine tank cars. I did a search of ACF tank cars built from the mid-1920s thru the early 1950s but didn’t find any matches of 6,000 gallon, ARA V or ICC-105A cars originally owned by Westvaco or leased from SHPX Shippers’ Car Line and lettered accordingly. If not an ACF car, perhaps it was built by General American.

Westvaco Chorine Products Corp. and Westvaco Chemical Division, leased 38 SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO covered hopper cars built from 5-47 to 6-51 (see RP CYC Vol. 27). Roughly 30 years ago I coordinated with Microscale, who produced decal set #87-660 that included lettering for these Westvaco LO’s and 4 plant locations to include South Charleston, W.V. 

I’m curious if anyone can determine an estimated date of the photo. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


brianleppert@att.net
 

SHPX 4733 has a different dome.

Brian Leppert