Topics

Hindsight 20/20 5.0


Rick Naylor
 

A question on the stoci yards east of Chicago was asked during Steve's presentation. Boston had their's On Brighton New York City had theirs' in Manhatten.

https://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/tag/cattle-stockyards-manhattan/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Stock_Yards#:~:text=The%20Brighton%20Stock%20Yards%20were,Albany%20Railroad%20and%20transported%20west.

http://www.bahistory.org/CattleIndustry.html


Steve SANDIFER
 

Best overall book on Stock yards: Livestock Hotels by J’Nell L. Pate, TCU Press, Fort Worth.

 

Stockyard List from “The National Provisioner – Volume 65, p23 (1921)” 

AL           Birmingham                        Birmingham Stockyards Co

                Montgomery                     L&N Stockyards

Montgomery                     Union Stockyards Co of Montgomery

 

CO          Denver                                 Denver  Union Stockyard Co

 

DC          Benning                               Union Stockyards Co of New Jersey

 

FL            Jacksonville                        National Stockyards

 

GA          Augusta                               Augusta Stockyard Co

                Dublin                                   Dublin Stockyards Co

                Moultrie                              Moultrie Stockyards

 

IA            Sioux City                             Sioux City Stockyards Co

 

IL             Chicago                                Union Stockyard & Transit Co of Chicago

                National Stockyards        St Louis National Stockyards Co

                Peoria                                   Peoria Union Stockyards Co

 

IN           Evansville                            Evansville Union Stockyard Co

                Indianapolis                        Belt Railroad and Stockyards Co

                Lafayette                             Lafayette Union Stockyards Co

 

KS           Wichita                                 Wichita Union Stock Yards Co

 

KY           Louisville                              Bourbon Stockyards Co

 

LA           Arabi                                     New Orleans Stockyards, Inc

 

MA         Brighton                               Brighton Stockyards Co

 

MD         Baltimore                            Union Stockyard Co

 

MI          Detroit                                  Michigan Central Railroad Co

 

MN        South St Paul                      St Paul Union Stockyards Co

 

MO        Kansas City                          Kansas City Stockyards Co

                South St Joseph                St Joseph Stockyards Co

 

NE          South Omaha                     Union Stockyards Co of Omaha

 

NJ           Jersey City                           Jersey City Stockyards Co

                Newark                                Newark Stockyards

 

NY          Buffalo                                 New York Central Railroad Co

                New York                             New York Stockyards

                West Albany                       Patrick Horan & Sons

 

OH          Cincinnati                            Cincinnati Union Stockyard Co

                Cleveland                            Cleveland Union Stockyards Co

                Columbus                            Drovers Union Stockyards

                Dayton                                 Union Stockyards Co

                Fostoria                                Fostoria Union Stockyards Co

                Marion                                 Marion Union Stockyards Co

                Springfield                          Springfield Union Stockyards Co

                Toledo                                  Inter-State Stockyards Co

                Toledo                                  Toledo Union Stockyards Co

               

OK          Oklahoma City                   Oklahoma National Stockyards Co

 

OR          North Portland                  Portland Union Stockyards Co

 

PA          Lancaster                             Union Stockyard

                Philadelphia                       West Philadelphia Stockyard Co

                Pittsburgh                           Pittsburgh Union Stockyards Co

 

SC           Columbia                             Columbia Stockyards Co

 

SD           Sioux Falls                            Sioux Falls Stockyards Co

 

TN          Chattanooga                      Foust-Yarnell Stockyards

                Knoxville                              East Tennessee Stockyards

                Memphis                             Dixie National Stockyards

                Memphis                             Joseph A Maxwell & Sons Commission Co

                Memphis                             South Memphis Stockyards

                Nashville                              Nashville Union Stockyards, Inc

 

TX           El Paso                                  El Paso Union Stockyards Co

                El Paso                                  Independent Union Stockyards Co

                Fort Worth                          Fort Worth Stockyards Co

                San Antonio                       Union Stockyards

 

UT          North Salt Lake                 Salt Lake Union Stockyards

                Ogden                                  Union Stockyards

 

VA          Richmond                            Richmond Union Stockyards Co

                Richmond                            Southern Stockyards Corp

 

WA         Pasco                                    Pasco Union Stockyards Co

                Seattle                                  Union Stockyards Co

                Spokane                              Spokane Union Stock Yards Co

 

WI          Milwaukee                         Milwaukee Stockyards Co

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Naylor
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2020 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hindsight 20/20 5.0

 

A question on the stoci yards east of Chicago was asked during Steve's presentation. Boston had their's On Brighton New York City had theirs' in Manhatten.

https://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/tag/cattle-stockyards-manhattan/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Stock_Yards#:~:text=The%20Brighton%20Stock%20Yards%20were,Albany%20Railroad%20and%20transported%20west.

http://www.bahistory.org/CattleIndustry.html


 

In Buffalo the both the Erie and the NYC had stockyards.  NYC facility was very large, Erie facility not so large.  Those were the only two in Buffalo.  Dold had a large meat packing plant in Buffalo on the NYC near Clinton Street.


rwilson1056
 

Found the National Stocktard for Jacksonville FL in one of the Sanborns for the city, see attached


William Hirt
 

The Jacksonville Sanborn maps updated through 1949 are available on the Library of Congress web site:

Here is the link to Volume 1a:

<https://www.loc.gov/item/sanborn01286_008/>

Here is the link to Volume 4:

<https://www.loc.gov/item/sanborn01286_010/>

The other updated Volumes thorough 1949 are not available on online. Earlier years (1884 to 1913) are also available.

The Library of Congress is gradually scanning their entire collection to place online. They say in the collection information they do not post anything beyond a copyright date of 1922, but there are exceptions I have found like the above.

Bill Hirt

On 12/26/2020 3:39 PM, rwilson1056 via groups.io wrote:
Found the National Stocktard for Jacksonville FL in one of the Sanborns for the city, see attached
_._,_._,_


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bill and friends,

Some cautions with the Sanborn maps are in order.

Some of the colorful paper originals had updates pasted in over the years, so a book issued with a particular date might actually contain later information. Of course, this is hard to see on a digitized version, and IIRC, they paste-ins were not dated.

Sanborn maps usually show railway tracks in detail. Not so with streetcar lines or interurbans, even when the electrified railway was a major freight carrier such as the Sacramento Northern. This exclusion began about the time of WWI. There are some early maps that show Oakland, Antioch & Eastern track (an SN predecessor) around 1912, but the same tracks are conspicuously absent from later maps. Electric railway right-of-way was usually shown as a blank space, sometimes bounded by drawn property lines, and indicated as "Electric Railway Right-of-Way" or some such wording. Many railroad buildings that fall into those zones are not shown either.

Much (but not all) the Sanborn maps were microfilmed by the Center for Research Libraries many years ago. I don't know if the Library of Congress is able to issue the maps in a more complete version (contrary to popular belief, the Library of Congress does NOT own a copy of every item in the world, or even in the U.S.). Nor do I know if they are re-using the CRL collection. It would be a shame if they did, as the CRL maps are all black-and-white, while the Sanborn originals are color coded for the materials used in each building. If you are using online versions of these maps through state or local libraries and they are monochrome, they are probably digitizations of the CRL collection.

There were other producers of similar fire insurance maps, but they were minor players. The Sanborn collection was the largest and most thorough, as well as in production for the longest time.

I once got into big  trouble over the Sanborn maps with the interlibrary loan people at the UVA Library where I worked. I made an ILL request for certain reels naming the Virginia towns in which I was interested. I expected four or five reels. CRL sent the entire Virginia collection, some 60 reels. As I viewed those reels, I understood why they did this. The information I wanted on the rural industrial areas I was researching was included with different towns during subsequent map re-issues. In addition, some towns extended across two or more reels. There was no index available. CRL had no way to tailor my request -- they just shipped the whole big shmegegge. UVA's ILL people were not happy to pay the postage each way on such a large and heavy carton. The lending clerk threw some very sharp words at me, and made a formal complaint to the ILL Director. The director nearly suspended my borrowing privileges, but eventually saw my side.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 8:01 PM William Hirt <whirt@...> wrote:

The Jacksonville Sanborn maps updated through 1949 are available on the Library of Congress web site:

Here is the link to Volume 1a:

<https://www.loc.gov/item/sanborn01286_008/>

Here is the link to Volume 4:

<https://www.loc.gov/item/sanborn01286_010/>

The other updated Volumes thorough 1949 are not available on online. Earlier years (1884 to 1913) are also available.

The Library of Congress is gradually scanning their entire collection to place online. They say in the collection information they do not post anything beyond a copyright date of 1922, but there are exceptions I have found like the above.

Bill Hirt

On 12/26/2020 3:39 PM, rwilson1056 via groups.io wrote:
Found the National Stocktard for Jacksonville FL in one of the Sanborns for the city, see attached


Brian Rochon
 

Garth et al,

 

A couple of comments regarding LOC Sanford Maps.

 

  1. The index page for each Volume has a change history shown.  If you look at that page you can see the original (copyright) date as well as the history of the dates that changes were made.
  2. All of the digitized LOC maps are in color and are available for free download in several file formats and resolutions from the LOC.

 

v/r,

Brian Rochon

Silver Spring, MD

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:03 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hindsight 20/20 5.0

 

Bill and friends,

 

Some cautions with the Sanborn maps are in order.

 

Some of the colorful paper originals had updates pasted in over the years, so a book issued with a particular date might actually contain later information. Of course, this is hard to see on a digitized version, and IIRC, they paste-ins were not dated.


rwilson1056
 

Notice there's Swift, Cudahy, & Wilson facilities all in that 1-2 block area. 


Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 05:03 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Some cautions with the Sanborn maps are in order...
Sanborn maps usually show railway tracks in detail.
But, keep in mind the purpose for which they were drawn; to allow someone in a distant office to assess the risk of fire spreading to a particular building. Since railroad tracks were both potential firebreaks and potential sources of ignition (from sparks thrown from passing locomotives) their LOCATION is shown quite accurately. However, their CONNECTIONS were of little interest and are often quite fanciful, or lacking entirely. I've run into this issue several times. Using a Sanborn map to research the Soo Line terminal in Eau Claire, WI, I was puzzled to see the the turntable lead drawn crossing the main line into the yard and continuing to a dead end in a lumber yard. Photos of the turntable showed the actual arrangement was two turnouts, the points of which were only a few feet apart. More confusing was the four stub ended tracks of the yard were drawn with no crossover to let an engine escape. There was a run-around track on the other side of the river; so it was possible the engine just ran around arriving trains there, then pushed into the yard, but giving the penchant for Sanborn maps to omit track, I don't know. Just this weekend I was looking at a Sanborn map of a different area; it showed a track that ran across a track scale and ended a couple hundred feet further on with no connection to any other track. However, the index map did show a track that curved in from an area marked "No Exposure" and connected to the middle of this orphan track. The connection wasn't pertinent to the detailed map, so they didn't bother to show it.

Not so with streetcar lines or interurbans, even when the electrified railway was a major freight carrier such as the Sacramento Northern. This exclusion began about the time of WWI.

Indeed. I was looking at maps of Batavia, IL to establish a time-line of changes, and was surprised to see the Chicago Aurora & Elgin Batavia branch trackage was never drawn. Interestingly, the station (which was in a commercial building) was noted, and the passenger platform drawn, but no track. I get the feeling that the Sanborn Co. considered the electric railways to be less of a fire risk.

Dennis Storzek
 


Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff awrote:

Sanborn maps usually show railway tracks in detail. 

      Only if they are simple. The area near the SP in San Luis Obispo, California shown in the Sanborn shows nothing at all in the railroad area, with the notation "full of tracks."
       The same map group shows a double-track industry service as single track, and shows a wye as a single curved track (one wye leg). I would say that Sanborn MAY show tracks accurately, but may well not.

Tony Thompson




Charlie Vlk
 

All-

Tony is correct….the Sanborn Maps often did not accurately or at all show railroad tracks as they had no direct impact on the fire information.

That being said, the earlier ones can provide some interesting information.   For example, the earliest maps for Downers Grove, Illinois show the first location of the turntable in a parcel on the south side of the tracks that later became a lumber yard.   When most suburban train terminations were transferred from Riverside to Downers Grove and a new suburban coach yard and engine house were built further west and on the north side of the tracks and a larger turntable was installed.

Without the Sanborn Maps we would not have known about the earlier location. 

The earlier the issue the better chance it has of showing reasonable track configuration.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hindsight 20/20 5.0

 

Garth Groff awrote:



Sanborn maps usually show railway tracks in detail. 

 

      Only if they are simple. The area near the SP in San Luis Obispo, California shown in the Sanborn shows nothing at all in the railroad area, with the notation "full of tracks."

       The same map group shows a double-track industry service as single track, and shows a wye as a single curved track (one wye leg). I would say that Sanborn MAY show tracks accurately, but may well not.

Tony Thompson