Topics

How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Fred Jansz
 

Hi all,
I'm in need of a few Tichy decals sets.
I hesitate becaus in the near past the printing was very thick and would hide fine details like rivets.
Just wonder if the production changed and they are useable now, since my last order ended in the waste bin.
Your advice is welcome.
thanks.
Fred Jansz

fred huss
 

I just used Tichy's Milwaukee Road box car decals and didn't notice that they were thick.  I didn't put them over rivets, however.
Fred Huss

Brian Carlson
 

The ones I tried this year went straight into the trash. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 11, 2019, at 4:39 PM, fred huss via Groups.Io <fred_l_huss@...> wrote:

I just used Tichy's Milwaukee Road box car decals and didn't notice that they were thick.  I didn't put them over rivets, however.
Fred Huss

Fred Jansz
 

I need Tichy #10013 Western Asphalt set for my OMI 10K Gal tank car.
Takes only $4 with $4 shipping, $8 total.
But if I have to dump the set right away, I'd rather spend the 8 bucks on something else.
Fred Jansz

Richard Townsend
 

I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.

Roger Huber
 

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all. I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

Just my 2¢

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.


Brian Carlson
 

Mine were so thick they would conform to the surface. The same issue as was discussed when they first came out. I ended up cobbling several other sources. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 12, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:


I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all. I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

Just my 2¢

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.


Roger Huber
 

Obviously they have some QC issues. The first ones from them must have been remnants from Jerry Glow.

I still think people should try them rather than just throw them away. Maybe what one guy thinks is too thick may be acceptable for others. Just like cars where some don't have issues with cast on grabs and ladders while others won't accept them. 

Maybe to have a reefer lettered for ABCX with thicker decals is more important than not having that car?

Opinions (like mine, too) are not gospel.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 10:14:30 AM CST, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


Mine were so thick they would conform to the surface. The same issue as was discussed when they first came out. I ended up cobbling several other sources. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 12, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:


I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all. I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

Just my 2¢

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.


Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

I have not used many Tichy decals but those that I have used were fine.  I recently used Don Tichy’s C&EI decals on a Sunshine Mather boxcar. 

 

I think factual information about various products is a valuable topic for this group, however, it is unfortunate that topics like this one turn out to become a bitch fest about some product or manufacturer. 

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

Jake Schaible
 

As an N Scale guy, getting a chuckle to see HO guys chatter about decal thickness.  Welcome to our world!  

The topic of the thickness of Tichy decals comes up from time to time over on TheRailWire.net.  If I was to summarize it?  I'd say, what is clear is that thickness is:

a) somewhat related to the specs of the rig, paper and ink used,

b) somewhat related to the specific image and color sought to reproduce, and

c) somewhat related to communication between the printer and the client.   

So it would be wrong to make a general statement of "Tichy's decals are too thick".  Sure, for some decals, of some images, on some settings, on some surfaces, Tichy might not be able to produce what you'd like.   For us N scale guy, we can say that about nearly all decals.  

But for the sake of compassion, I will share some sample data posted back in 2017 on TRW comparing thickness of Tichy's inkjet decals to say the Microscale screen printed water slides looking at very comparable black ink datablock on new PFE decal sets:

Using my ol' Starrett Vernier micrometer caliper, I have The Tichy backer paper, adhesive and carrier film at a dead 0.0090" and over the datablock, a 0.0100".  So a black only ink height is just 0.001"

The Microscale set, the backer paper to carrier is 0.0065", over data block, 0.0071".  So 0.0006.... yes, the Tichy's (more legible) ink is 0.0004" thicker than the Microscales.  But it's not ink build up that draws my eye.

The Tichy backer paper / adhesive & carrier, is also clearly thicker.  Some of this may be irrelevant as it could be that Tichy uses a thicker backer, but it could be a thicker carrier which might account for issue of curl.  And if this is a real issue, it may be fixable for Don to switch to a finer stock on which to print. 

Obvious, other colors and multilayer prints may be thicker.  And your results may vary.  

Off topic:  All this leaves me thinking the scale  model decal market might still benefit from new technology - one that can yield smaller / finer fonts at higher resolution, and not dependent on the limitation of ink jet or silk screen.  Kind of intrigued by the advances in intaglio microprinting and advanced inks, and wonder if such can be applied to develop waterslide decals ... but I'm certainly no expert here!

Donald B. Valentine
 

Decals are only as good as the film they are printed on, Roger, and thhat seems to be the trouble we
continually hear about Tichy decals. From whAT I hear elsewere the only place one can purchase good
decal sheets lately are in England. Their decal pricing is also better as is that from Italy. The old
expression is the consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds but if the film is not of consistent and
constant quality no one is going to be successful in the decal field.

Just another point of view, Don Valentine

James SANDIFER
 

Titchy decals are extremely thick. There is no way I have found to blend them into a car. It is like using vinyl letters on a car. They would be fine on a 1.5” scale, but not HO.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Huber via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:05 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

 

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

 

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

 

Just my 2¢

 

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

 

 

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

 

 

I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.

 

 

Roger Huber
 

Don & Others,

I've had some personal nasty emails about my comments concerning the Tichy decals. I don't understand as I have not said anything negative about Tichy or their decals or other products. 

I intended and thought my comments were more supportive than negative so I can't understand the ire directed my way. I merely stated that for those who think they are too thick BASED ON THE COMMENTS HERE FROM OTHER POSTERS that I felt just tossing them based on these comments was sort of dumb. If you've already paid for them then you should use them and see if they are actually too thick. They aren't permanent and come off easy.

Some folks said the decals were old stock from Jerry Glow and they were fine but new ones by Tichy were too thick. I don't know.

If my comments have ruffled some people I feel sorry for you as you're obviously seeing something that wasn't there.

Jeeze, Guys!

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 03:36:16 PM CST, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


Decals are only as good as the film they are printed on, Roger, and thhat seems to be the trouble we
continually hear about Tichy decals. From whAT I hear elsewere the only place one can purchase good
decal sheets lately are in England. Their decal pricing is also better as is that from Italy. The old
expression is the consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds but if the film is not of consistent and
constant quality no one is going to be successful in the decal field.

Just another point of view, Don Valentine

Ken Adams
 

Some time ago I purchased some of the Tichy PFE decals. Unfortunately the lettering was way to thick to look good. But the SP and UP shields could be used for the period when PFE used metal shields rather than painted shields on their cars. Unfortunately that period ended before the period I model. The metal shields were removed as a hazard when they came loose from wood sided cars. 

Tim O'Connor
 

Stephen

I recall someone (perhaps at the St Louis RPM) told me that Tichy's printer uses a type of
"plastic" transfer method to create the lettering. If so, they ARE similar to vinyl letters. :-D



On 11/12/2019 11:35 PM, James SANDIFER wrote:

Tichy decals are extremely thick. There is no way I have found to blend them into a car. It is like using vinyl letters on a car. They would be fine on a 1.5” scale, but not HO.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Bill Lugg
 

Fred,
I just ordered some decals from them a couple of weeks ago - the set for their six-pack of 40-fot, 50-ton flat cars.  I found them to be clear and sharp, but unusually thick as you mention.  I was a little surprised at this characteristic as I've never ordered from them before.

By the way, you may receive this message twice as I'm replying to the list and to you directly.  I just subscribed to the list and seem to be caught in "moderator hell".  I've posted a couple of messages, but they never show up, so I assume they're awaiting approval by the moderator.  I assume this one will suffer the same fate.

HTH
Bill Lugg

On 11/10/19 8:48 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Hi all,
I'm in need of a few Tichy decals sets.
I hesitate becaus in the near past the printing was very thick and would hide fine details like rivets.
Just wonder if the production changed and they are useable now, since my last order ended in the waste bin.
Your advice is welcome.
thanks.
Fred Jansz

Jake Schaible
 

Totally agree with Ken, that Tichy decals make for great PFE medallions.  But to my eyes, the white on the SP logo is a wee bit thin, and I'd kill for a correct UP "System" Logo (something never been done yet in N scale waterslide.)

PFE Logos: Tichy vs Microscale in N.

Tichy PFE datablock in N.

Microscale PFE Datablock in N.

While for lager text, the inkjet (depending on color) do "pile" paint more (to get saturation), they seem to actually produce better small text, given silk screens are not able to reliably hold small text and often suffer element lose.  

 

>James SANDIFER "Titchy decals are extremely thick. There is no way I have found to blend them into a car."

You might want to give this method a try.  Not mine, but comes from an acclaimed N scale modelers who happens to work at Microtrains, and he offered this when a similar comment about thick ink jet decals was made back in 2017 on the same TRW thread I referenced above.  His "Solvaset plus hairdryer" method has word for me even in N scale, but is take a lot of time and is a PITA.    

 

"Archer textured decals are made by the same sort of printer using the same inks as Tichy.  One of the issues you have is the thickness of the white inks to gain the kind of opacity you need.  Until we can get a machine that can do thermal printing like our trusty Alps over irregular surfaces this is the process we have to work with.  I think you will also find you'll have difficulty getting these over ribs and other surface details.  The ink doesn't soften with traditional decal solvent solutions easily so you have to really work on getting them to set. I have used Solvaset and a hair dryer to good effect."

Dick Harley
 


The problems with Tichy PFE decals far extend past their being too thick (you can feel the ink with your finger nail).

Tichy PFE decals have lettering that is the wrong size and shape - some too big, some too small.  The numbers are the wrong size, and their shape is nowhere near what PFE (and SP and UP) used.  The UP medallions are the wrong shape and style.

Compare lettering to the SPH&TS painting & lettering book, or new Microscale sets 87-501 or 60-501.  Compare medallions to the book or Microscale 87-414 or MC-4021.
Tichy's PFE artwork is just not accurate - or even close. 


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA

Tony Thompson
 

Dick Harley wrote:

Tichy PFE decals have lettering that is the wrong size and shape - some too big, some too small.  The numbers are the wrong size, and their shape is nowhere near what PFE (and SP and UP) used.  The UP medallions are the wrong shape and style.

Compare lettering to the SPH&TS painting & lettering book, or new Microscale sets 87-501 or 60-501.  Compare medallions to the book or Microscale 87-414 or MC-4021.
Tichy's PFE artwork is just not accurate - or even close. 

     Dick is exactly right. I haven't bought any Tichy PFE decals, because I rely on the "gold standard," the new Microscale sets with Dick's superb artwork, taken from PFE drawings. But I recently looked at a friend's PFE set from TIchy, and as Dick says, not even close. I have no idea what, if anything, these decals are based on, but obviously not the prototype. Caveat emptor.

Tony Thompson



Fred Jansz
 

Gents,
agree with that (fonts, size and thickness).
would like to emphasize Ted's excellent PFE decal line too.

speaking about PFE decals;
wish someone would print the 'inverted' UP herald as (accidentally) used on the R-30-16 (and maybe others).
fun to add to one of my Sunshine R-30-16's.
cheers,
Fred Jansz