IC 161722 Chcago, 1940's


Dave Nelson
 


Robert Heninger
 

Based on the “NEW 11-37” dates on the car, the new condition of the cars, and the snow visible, I’d say circa November 1937 is the date, not 1945. Nice picture, thanks for sharing.

Regards, 
Bob Heninger 
Minot, ND


nyc3001 .
 

This looks like the series right after the 161501 series (161700?), which were modeled by the Sunshine kit. They look similar, so I wonder what the differences are.

I wonder if these cars have just been delivered as the other car whose number is visible is 161875, which would be in the same series (?).

-Phil Lee


Tim O'Connor
 


Wow you've got to love those large format black & white films that are so incredibly sharp.
You can easily read the entire trust stencil. :-)

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Definitely a 1937 photo as Bob says. Here's one of the cars IC 161748 in 1941, and it's quite weathered.

On 7/14/2022 2:37 AM, nyc3001 . wrote:
This looks like the series right after the 161501 series (161700?), which were modeled by the Sunshine kit. They look similar, so I wonder what the differences are.

I wonder if these cars have just been delivered as the other car whose number is visible is 161875, which would be in the same series (?).

-Phil Lee

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Charlie Duckworth
 

Tim
When I was writing my book for the MPHS I’d included a photo of a Mopac freight house that the envelope was labeled “St Louis, Missouri”.  I’d send the manuscript around to a few SMEs to catch any errors or add to my captions and Bill Pollard remarked the above freight house “looked like the one in Memphis”.  There was a line of 1920 era cars parked around the entrance and since the original negative was an 8” x 10” I could enlarge it enough to read the license plates which all showed ‘TENN’ obviously showing Bill was right on target. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Jeffrey White
 

According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders).

Other data that modelers may find useful:

Trucks: ASF (AAR)

Roof: Rigid riveted type "Hutchins"

Doors: Youngstown Corr Steel

Handbrake: Universal XL 1825

Ladders: Brascott

Some cars in 4100 - 41599 equipped with 50T trucks.

Jeff White Alma IL

On 7/14/2022 9:07 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Definitely a 1937 photo as Bob says. Here's one of the cars IC 161748 in 1941, and it's quite weathered.

On 7/14/2022 2:37 AM, nyc3001 . wrote:
This looks like the series right after the 161501 series (161700?), which were modeled by the Sunshine kit. They look similar, so I wonder what the differences are.

I wonder if these cars have just been delivered as the other car whose number is visible is 161875, which would be in the same series (?).

-Phil Lee

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


 

These cars had the Square 5/5 Dreadnaught Ends. Brad Hamner did a presentation on kitbashing this car on Hindsight 20/20 Zoom RPM a few years back. The doors were also slightly different.

Rich Christie

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM CDT, Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...> wrote:


According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders).

Other data that modelers may find useful:

Trucks: ASF (AAR)

Roof: Rigid riveted type "Hutchins"

Doors: Youngstown Corr Steel

Handbrake: Universal XL 1825

Ladders: Brascott

Some cars in 4100 - 41599 equipped with 50T trucks.

Jeff White Alma IL

On 7/14/2022 9:07 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Definitely a 1937 photo as Bob says. Here's one of the cars IC 161748 in 1941, and it's quite weathered.

On 7/14/2022 2:37 AM, nyc3001 . wrote:
This looks like the series right after the 161501 series (161700?), which were modeled by the Sunshine kit. They look similar, so I wonder what the differences are.

I wonder if these cars have just been delivered as the other car whose number is visible is 161875, which would be in the same series (?).

-Phil Lee

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Why do you think Proto 2000 did not do an IC paint scheme on their model? These cars look
awfully close to the P2K 50 foot double door car.



On 7/14/2022 12:20 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders).

Other data that modelers may find useful:

Trucks: ASF (AAR)

Roof: Rigid riveted type "Hutchins"

Doors: Youngstown Corr Steel

Handbrake: Universal XL 1825

Ladders: Brascott

Some cars in 4100 - 41599 equipped with 50T trucks.



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Ah ! I didn't notice the S corner ends. That would explain why P2K did no model. Was there a Sunshine mini-kit ?


On 7/14/2022 12:47 PM, Rich C via groups.io wrote:
These cars had the Square 5/5 Dreadnaught Ends. Brad Hamner did a presentation on kitbashing this car on Hindsight 20/20 Zoom RPM a few years back. The doors were also slightly different.

Rich Christie

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 11:20:40 AM CDT, Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...> wrote:


According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders).

Other data that modelers may find useful:

Trucks: ASF (AAR)

Roof: Rigid riveted type "Hutchins"

Doors: Youngstown Corr Steel

Handbrake: Universal XL 1825

Ladders: Brascott

Some cars in 4100 - 41599 equipped with 50T trucks.

Jeff White Alma IL



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

I’m not sure there was minikit for these cars, but Sunshine did produce a full resin kit for this series of cars. You could probably use the 5/5 square corner Dreadnaught ends RCW and Sunshine once offered for the 40’ IC/Soo/DSS&A cars, but you’d have to do some decal cobbling.

Regards,
Bob Heninger 
Minot, ND.


Guy Wilber
 

Jeffrey White wrote:

"According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders)."

Jeffrey,

ORER information that will help you with the renumbering.  The renumbering of the 161501-161700 cars may have commenced prior to April of 1940.  The 161701-162300 series renumbering occurred between January of 1941 and January of 1943.  I don't have ORERs to fill in the blanks. 

April ~1939

XAR 161501 - 161700  200@
XA    161701 - 162300  600@

April ~ 1940

XAR  44000 -  44099 (Noted as increase)
                                                                   } 200@
         161501 - 161700
XA     161701 - 162300  600@

January ~ 1941

XAR  44000 - 44099
                                         } 200@
         161501 - 161700
XA    161701 - 162300

January ~ 1943 

XAR  44000 - 44199  199@
XA     41000 - 41599  598@

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


_._,_.1,_


Tim O'Connor
 


IC 41464 from the Gerstley collection circa 1958


On 7/15/2022 11:49 PM, Guy Wilber via groups.io wrote:
Jeffrey White wrote:

"According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders)."

Jeffrey,

ORER information that will help you with the renumbering.  The renumbering of the 161501-161700 cars may have commenced prior to April of 1940.  The 161701-162300 series renumbering occurred between January of 1941 and January of 1943.  I don't have ORERs to fill in the blanks. 

April ~1939

XAR 161501 - 161700  200@
XA    161701 - 162300  600@

April ~ 1940

XAR  44000 -  44099 (Noted as increase)
                                                                   } 200@
         161501 - 161700
XA     161701 - 162300  600@

January ~ 1941

XAR  44000 - 44099
                                         } 200@
         161501 - 161700
XA    161701 - 162300

January ~ 1943 

XAR  44000 - 44199  199@
XA     41000 - 41599  598@

Guy Wilber


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Gad. Forgot the photo.


On 7/16/2022 10:22 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

IC 41464 from the Gerstley collection circa 1958


On 7/15/2022 11:49 PM, Guy Wilber via groups.io wrote:
Jeffrey White wrote:

"According to the car diagram in the IC 1954 freight car diagram book the cars were built by GATC in East Chicago IN in 1937 so the photo could be a delivery photo.  161501 - 161700 had auto loaders and 161701 - 162300 no auto loaders.  At some point (the diagram sheet doesn't give a date) they were renumbered to 44000 - 44199 (auto loaders) and 41000 - 41599 (no auto loaders)."

Jeffrey,

ORER information that will help you with the renumbering.  The renumbering of the 161501-161700 cars may have commenced prior to April of 1940.  The 161701-162300 series renumbering occurred between January of 1941 and January of 1943.  I don't have ORERs to fill in the blanks. 

April ~1939

XAR 161501 - 161700  200@
XA    161701 - 162300  600@

April ~ 1940

XAR  44000 -  44099 (Noted as increase)
                                                                   } 200@
         161501 - 161700
XA     161701 - 162300  600@

January ~ 1941

XAR  44000 - 44099
                                         } 200@
         161501 - 161700
XA    161701 - 162300

January ~ 1943 

XAR  44000 - 44199  199@
XA     41000 - 41599  598@

Guy Wilber


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

Interestingly, the original photo showing the new car shows it is a 40 ton car; must have been built with older trucks reclaimed from scrapped cars. In this latest photo, that capacity has shrunk to just 65,000 lbs., 32-1/2 tons, and the light weight is almost equal to the capacity. Must be some really heavy permanent racks installed. Auto engine service?

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 


Yep! Notes L & X in the 1959 ORER list all of these cars whose numbers differ from the norm.
IC 41464 is listed under Note X. No reason is given other than "special loading".

Could be racks, or bins, or special pallets, or a combination.

Tim


On 7/16/2022 12:47 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
Interestingly, the original photo showing the new car shows it is a 40 ton car; must have been built with older trucks reclaimed from scrapped cars. In this latest photo, that capacity has shrunk to just 65,000 lbs., 32-1/2 tons, and the light weight is almost equal to the capacity. Must be some really heavy permanent racks installed. Auto engine service?

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts