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IM Deco End Car Question

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

I just received my Deco end C&O "For Progress" car from Ted Schnepf (Thanks again Ted). It is a  lot better assembled than the NS car I bought elsewhere a couple of years ago, with its running board looking like a washboard).

Question: My car has a circle with a line through the center in the middle of the door. AFAIK, this indicates some sort of tie-down devices. I see nothing about these cars being in any special service in my ORER. Any comments?

The car is reweigh 4-1949, which I presume is when these were repainted. I need to change this date, but that is a small thing. 

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆

dalemuir2@...
 
Edited

My research tells me the "For Progress" logo was applied with new PS1 boxcars starting in 1948. It was applied to older cars as they were repainted.

Here's the answer from
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37166

Begin quote

From Tom Dixon's book The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway at Mid-Century, "C&O first began using the logo and slogan 'C&O for Progress' in early 1948. As far as we can learn, the first cars to carry the logo were the PS-1 Box Cars delivered by Pullman Standard in January 1948." Tom goes on to say that all freight cars bore the new logo, so any new equipment or equipment repainted after January 1948 would have had the For Progress logo. However, given the amount of equipment on the railroad and the timeframes for repainting freight cars, I'd imagine there were cars that made it into the Chessie era without the For Progress logo.

Tom Patterson

Modeling the free-lanced Chesapeake, Wheeling & Erie Railroad, Summer 1976

End quote

Dale Muir
Geneva, IL

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Before we get lost here, my original question was about the circle with the bar on the door, its meaning and whether there was some special assignment for these cars. The rest of the information about repainting is interesting, but not what I was looking for. My fault for not keeping my own comments on target.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:40 PM <dalemuir2@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

My research tells me the "For Progress" logo was applied with new PS1 boxcars starting in 1948. It was applied to older cars as they were repainted.

Here's the answer from
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37166

Begin quote

Thu, 2019-08-01 04:10 — Tom Patterson

From Tom Dixon's book The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway at Mid-Century, "C&O first began using the logo and slogan 'C&O for Progress' in early 1948. As far as we can learn, the first cars to carry the logo were the PS-1 Box Cars delivered by Pullman Standard in January 1948." Tom goes on to say that all freight cars bore the new logo, so any new equipment or equipment repainted after January 1948 would have had the For Progress logo. However, given the amount of equipment on the railroad and the timeframes for repainting freight cars, I'd imagine there were cars that made it into the Chessie era without the For Progress logo.

Tom Patterson

Modeling the free-lanced Chesapeake, Wheeling & Erie Railroad, Summer 1976

End quote

Dale Muir
Geneva, IL

Rod Miller
 

Photos of the car the Rich Yoder imported can be seen at:

www.rodmiller.com/forsale.html#yoder_box


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com

Allan Smith
 

That symbol on the door may be an early indicator of load restraining devices in the car. Maybe someone with more info on these devices and what symbols were used can give a better explanation.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 05:06:17 PM PDT, Rod Miller <rod@...> wrote:


Photos of the car the Rich Yoder imported can be seen at:

www.rodmiller.com/forsale.html#yoder_box


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com



Guy Wilber
 


Al Smith wrote

“That symbol on the door may be an early indicator of load restraining devices in the car. Maybe someone with more info on these devices and what symbols were used can give a better explanation.”

From the archives, the symbol is covered in the last paragraph:

 Guy Wilber
11/27/13   

Tim asked:
 
 
"Is there a similar document for the stencils that you have described?"
 
Yes, the Plates within Section L of the AAR Manual of Standard and Recommended Practice.
 
 
"I often see this bar-ball stencil with or without lines above and below, and another common door stencil is a circle with a vertical line.  Also a bar-ball with vertical lines on each side. (Which I always thought meant the car was equipped with movable bulkheads.)"
 
 
Plate 42-A was adopted in August of 1946.  The figure was a 5" diameter ball centered over a 10" long x 3" high solid bar.  Applied, the figure signified cars equipped to handle auto parts.
 
In 1959 the Car Construction Committee was requested to develop figures which would signify cars equipped with Evans DF, Spartan Tri-Belt and Transco S-L load restraining devices. 
 
The figure developed to signify cars equipped with bar type restraining systems (as above) was the same as 42-A with the addition of two 7-1/2" long x 1-1/2" high bars placed horizontally above and below the key slot.
 
The figure developed to signify cars equipped with movable bulkheads was the same as 42-A with the addition of two  7-1/2" x 1-1/2" vertical bars bracketing the key slot. 
 
At that same time Plate 42-A was incorporated into the same grouping with the caption, "Method of marking cars equipped for handling  containers."
 
The figures (presented as Plate 42-B) were approved and became effective on March 1, 1960.
 
The circle with the vertical bar was Plate 42-D adopted in 1953.  The figure was a 6" inch in diameter x 1" thick circle with a 1" thick vertical bar.  The figure was stenciled on cars equipped with permanent lading strap anchors.  



Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
guy
_._,_._,_

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Guy,

The IM Deco boxcar has the circle with a horizontal bar across only the center of the circle. That doesn't quite seem to fit any of the signs you describe.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 10:33 PM Guy Wilber via Groups.Io <guycwilber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Al Smith wrote

“That symbol on the door may be an early indicator of load restraining devices in the car. Maybe someone with more info on these devices and what symbols were used can give a better explanation.”

From the archives, the symbol is covered in the last paragraph:

 Guy Wilber
11/27/13   

Tim asked:
 
 
"Is there a similar document for the stencils that you have described?"
 
Yes, the Plates within Section L of the AAR Manual of Standard and Recommended Practice.
 
 
"I often see this bar-ball stencil with or without lines above and below, and another common door stencil is a circle with a vertical line.  Also a bar-ball with vertical lines on each side. (Which I always thought meant the car was equipped with movable bulkheads.)"
 
 
Plate 42-A was adopted in August of 1946.  The figure was a 5" diameter ball centered over a 10" long x 3" high solid bar.  Applied, the figure signified cars equipped to handle auto parts.
 
In 1959 the Car Construction Committee was requested to develop figures which would signify cars equipped with Evans DF, Spartan Tri-Belt and Transco S-L load restraining devices. 
 
The figure developed to signify cars equipped with bar type restraining systems (as above) was the same as 42-A with the addition of two 7-1/2" long x 1-1/2" high bars placed horizontally above and below the key slot.
 
The figure developed to signify cars equipped with movable bulkheads was the same as 42-A with the addition of two  7-1/2" x 1-1/2" vertical bars bracketing the key slot. 
 
At that same time Plate 42-A was incorporated into the same grouping with the caption, "Method of marking cars equipped for handling  containers."
 
The figures (presented as Plate 42-B) were approved and became effective on March 1, 1960.
 
The circle with the vertical bar was Plate 42-D adopted in 1953.  The figure was a 6" inch in diameter x 1" thick circle with a 1" thick vertical bar.  The figure was stenciled on cars equipped with permanent lading strap anchors.  



Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
guy

Guy Wilber
 

Garth Wrote:

“The IM Deco boxcar has the circle with a horizontal bar across only the center of the circle. That doesn't quite seem to fit any of the signs you describe.”

As I suspected, the symbol on the C&O cars (despite having a horizontal bar)designates cars equipped with lading strap anchors.  

From Al Kresse: 

Diagram sheet 17 (Aug 4, 1937, late rev'd in 1960) for C&O 5000-5499 series (three series combined here) says "AZ EE lading straps and anchors to 4000-5499" and handwritten Note 2 to 5000-5499 series (both Dreadnaught and Deco ends) "100 cars have AZ EE lading straps."  That would be your oval with horizontal bar marking on the door it appears. 

Thanks, Al

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 



._,_

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Guy,

Thanks much for the clarification. Looks like IM got this right. I will leave the symbol on my car.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:07 PM Guy Wilber via Groups.Io <guycwilber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Garth Wrote:

“The IM Deco boxcar has the circle with a horizontal bar across only the center of the circle. That doesn't quite seem to fit any of the signs you describe.”

As I suspected, the symbol on the C&O cars (despite having a horizontal bar)designates cars equipped with lading strap anchors.  

From Al Kresse: 

Diagram sheet 17 (Aug 4, 1937, late rev'd in 1960) for C&O 5000-5499 series (three series combined here) says "AZ EE lading straps and anchors to 4000-5499" and handwritten Note 2 to 5000-5499 series (both Dreadnaught and Deco ends) "100 cars have AZ EE lading straps."  That would be your oval with horizontal bar marking on the door it appears. 

Thanks, Al

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 



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