InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)


Bob Chaparro
 

InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)

InterMountain has a new run of their 1958 Cu. Ft. Two-Bay Hoppers.

The colorful NAHX/Polybor-Chlorate caught my attention:

https://intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/48643.htm

Does anyone have more information on the prototype cars?

Builder?

How many in the fleet?

Last year of service?

Photos?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Tim O'Connor
 


I've never seen that one, but there were some interesting cars in that NAHX cohort (30xxx series)
in gypsum and trona service. They were not all built by ACF, and so the builder stencil on the model
could be accurate. But it's from Intermountain, so it's not really safe to assume that it's completely
accurate.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/24/2021 2:03 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)

InterMountain has a new run of their 1958 Cu. Ft. Two-Bay Hoppers.

The colorful NAHX/Polybor-Chlorate caught my attention:

https://intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/48643.htm

Does anyone have more information on the prototype cars?

Builder?

How many in the fleet?

Last year of service?

Photos?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


mel perry
 

there was a multi part article in RMJ, in
its early days,  re the ACF/NAHX series
apparently this particlar batch of cars
were specially painted for the actual
lesee's
mel perry


Allen Cain
 

Help me out here.  I thought that “billboard” paint schemes where outlawed well before the 1953 date on this car.  If I am mistaken, please educate me.
--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


Ken Adams
 

I've had undecorated kits of the 1958 Cu Ft hoppers with no cutout on backorder for almost 5 years.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Guy Wilber
 


Allen Cain wrote:

“Help me out here.  I thought that “billboard” paint schemes where outlawed well before the 1953 date on this car.  If I am mistaken, please educate me.”

The Interchange Rule regarding billboard type advertising was revised (somewhat) in verbiage, but was essentially the same from 1936-1960.  The Rule was originally added within section (r) under refrigerator cars, but subsequently moved to section (a), advertisement.  Tank cars and cars of “L” designations were exempted beginning January of 1939.  

1954 Rules of Interchange:

 Rule 3, Section (a), Paragraph (9):  Advertisements of any shipper, consignee or product, prohibited on all cars except special cars of Mechanical Designation “L” and tank cars of Mechanical Designation “T”.  In Interchange 

Note — The name of the “Home Point” of the car owner or lessee, a trademark or symbol, or the name of the owner or lessee, or any part thereof, will not be considered advertising.  

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

Guy


Andy Carlson
 

After decades of my getting Intermountain kits with nearly 100% fill rates, around 2010 the out of stock non-shipped kits started increasing for my purchases. This continued getting weaker until about 5 years ago the only kits I got were the inventory queens, and those too have now gone away. I have not received any of the 100's of back ordered kits since then.

I am now coming around to realize that most of those back ordered kits may never be shipped. Looking at Intermountain's list of HO undec kits, the only offered and in stock kits are some plastic containers. Not a single undec freight car kit is shown as being in stock and available for purchase. A select few kits are shown as "Reserve Now" which means that IM is taking reservations for those and probably intend to have these available in the future. In this list is both versions of the 1958 cu ft covered hoppers, along with several other covered hoppers and oddly, the former RC X29 cars and post-1955 40' box cars in welded/riveted and 6'/8' door configuration.
 
Intermountain seems to be showing us that their future selling of kits is in jeopardy. So no parts and no kits.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, July 24, 2021, 8:04:03 AM PDT, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


I've had undecorated kits of the 1958 Cu Ft hoppers with no cutout on backorder for almost 5 years.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
_._,_._,_


Brian Shumaker
 

It is SOP with model railroad manufacturers. I don’t understand it at all as the other injected plastic hobbies are doing very nicely producing kits. Why do the plastic car, aircraft, armor and ship modelers get what ever they want in seemingly endless inventory, and we get nothing? Don’t get me started on the multitudes of aftermarket resin and etched metal enhancements produced for nearly every kit in every scale. We’re getting the shaft from the manufacturers.
Brian Shumaker


Brian Carlson
 

It’s quite simple. The other hobbies you mention the hobby is building the model. Sometimes people will build dioramas for the models but that’s about it. Model railroading on the other hand the end goal is generally to have a functioning model railroad. About 20 years ago the consumer spoke with their wallets in the switch from kits to ready to run really accelerated.  We often forget on this list that we are in the minority of the hobby.

I currently pick up kits whenever I can find them. I just bought 10 IMWX boxcar kits at $10 each for stock and kitbashing purposes.  I wish I could find about half a dozen branchline boxcar kits. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jul 24, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Brian Shumaker <brian.shumaker@...> wrote:

It is SOP with model railroad manufacturers. I don’t understand it at all as the other injected plastic hobbies are doing very nicely producing kits. Why do the plastic car, aircraft, armor and ship modelers get what ever they want in seemingly endless inventory, and we get nothing? Don’t get me started on the multitudes of aftermarket resin and etched metal enhancements produced for nearly every kit in every scale. We’re getting the shaft from the manufacturers.
Brian Shumaker


Ed Hawkins
 



On Jul 24, 2021, at 1:03 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)
InterMountain has a new run of their 1958 Cu. Ft. Two-Bay Hoppers.
The colorful NAHX/Polybor-Chlorate caught my attention:
Does anyone have more information on the prototype cars?
Builder?
How many in the fleet?
Last year of service?
Photos?

Bob,
The car in question was built by Pullman-Standard in May 1953 as part of a 75-car order in lot 8117, and sold to owner North American Car Company in series NAHX 30500-30574. These cars were discussed in my RP CYC Volume 30 article with an assortment of in-service photos. The 75 cars in the order were divided into seven separate series with 6 different lessees and 19 cars without any lessee company stencils.

The P-S builder photos for this lot were obtained by Ed Kaminski, with credits to Don Obarski, and published on pages 123 to 127 in the book Pullman-Standard Freight Cars 1900-1960. All of the builder photos illustrate these cars as being painted paint for the sides, ends, and roof; black slope sheets, underbody, hopper bottoms, trucks, and probably black stencils over gray.

Five cars in the series, NAHX 30514-30518, were leased by North American to the Pacific Coast Borax Company. The builder photo of NAHX 30514 is shown on page 124 with what amounts to a letter board across the top of the car on two lines in serif-style stencils with the top line of larger size than the 2nd line. 

PACIFIC COAST BORAX COMPANY
DIVISION OF BORAX CONSOLIDATED LIMITED

If my memory serves correctly, around 10 years ago Frank Hodina contacted me as he came up with a color photo of a car in this multi-color paint scheme. I contacted InterMountain and they were receptive to producing a model and created the artwork. They did a terrific job of accurately depicting the prototype car. In the 2012-2013 time frame, InterMountain offered this model in the 5 numbers, so this current offering is a re-run. Unfortunately, I cannot locate the photo and would need to contact Frank to see if he still has it.

I’m unable to confirm if all 5 of the cars actually received this scheme. In any event I’m unaware of a P-S builder photo taken in this scheme promoting the new Polybor-Chlorate.

Regarding your other question about how many in the fleet, roster data in RP CYC Volume 30 provides details of 225 new cars of the 1958 cu.ft. design, built from Oct. 1950 to May 1953 by Pullman-Standard in five separate orders. 

Also, in 1952 NAHX acquired 8 additional cars built by ACF for West End Chemical Co. The fleet of cars were numbered 30000-30149, 30400-30407 (2nd-hand cars), and 30500-30574. Original lessees included American Potash & Chemical Corp. (55 cars), International Minerals & Chemical Corp. (131), Pacific Coast Borax Co. (5), West End Chemical Co. (1 new; plus possibly the 8 cars purchased 2nd-hand from West End), Kimberly-Clark Corp. (5), and Reynolds Metals Co. (6). Another 22 cars were used in a pool presumably for short-term leases or possibly for long-term leases if made after the cars were built.

For anyone interested in getting into the gritty details of the P-S lot 8117 cars, the Pullman Library has P-S contract files that include a chronological sequence of events via NAHX and P-S correspondence and other info to include specialties provided by numerous suppliers of parts such as hand brakes, running boards, trucks, etc., and their associated costs. These files may also provide specific info if P-S did the painting of one or more cars in the Polybor-Chlorate scheme. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Scott H. Haycock
 

Brian,
 
PM me about some Branchline kits I'd be willing to part with. I can't extract a valid email address for you from this post.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 07/24/2021 11:08 AM Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:
 
 
It’s quite simple. The other hobbies you mention the hobby is building the model. Sometimes people will build dioramas for the models but that’s about it. Model railroading on the other hand the end goal is generally to have a functioning model railroad. About 20 years ago the consumer spoke with their wallets in the switch from kits to ready to run really accelerated.  We often forget on this list that we are in the minority of the hobby.
 
I currently pick up kits whenever I can find them. I just bought 10 IMWX boxcar kits at $10 each for stock and kitbashing purposes.  I wish I could find about half a dozen branchline boxcar kits. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jul 24, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Brian Shumaker <brian.shumaker@...> wrote:

It is SOP with model railroad manufacturers. I don’t understand it at all as the other injected plastic hobbies are doing very nicely producing kits. Why do the plastic car, aircraft, armor and ship modelers get what ever they want in seemingly endless inventory, and we get nothing? Don’t get me started on the multitudes of aftermarket resin and etched metal enhancements produced for nearly every kit in every scale. We’re getting the shaft from the manufacturers.
Brian Shumaker


Jim Betz
 

Allen,
  The banning of billboard paint schemes was based upon "equal access" to 
advertising.  Billboard companies felt/argued that the moving billboards of
the RR cars were "unfail competition" not so much because they were moving
but because the companies advertising on said cars didn't pay for the ads.
  So they were banned.  But the banning was for ads for 'other companies'.
  In other words, if Swift -owned- the car then Swift could advertise their own
products.  But they couldn't 'give away' the space to some other company. 
Before the ruling what was actually happening was that not only was the
billboard moving but also it was 'free' to companies that shipped their
products in that car company's cars ... a "bonus" that was used to lure
shippers to a particular car owning company.

  So - bottom line - it wasn't the fact that it was a billboard but rather that it
was advertising that the company being advertised didn't pay for (directly).
  
  For reasons I've never understood the car companies never tried charging
for ads on their cars.  Probably the ruling was written in such a way that it
wasn't really possible?
                                                                                                   - Jim


Tony Thompson
 

Allen Cain wrote:

Help me out here. I thought that “billboard” paint schemes where outlawed well before the 1953 date on this car. If I am mistaken, please educate me.
Always remember that the primary issue addressed by the “ban” on billboard schemes was the provision by the leasing company of free advertising paint schemes for their lessees. And advertising in general, meaning posters or placards attached to cars by shippers, was banned early in the 20th century. As long as the lessee or car owner advertised THEMSELVES, for example a billboard-sized word like “HORMEL,” that was okay.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Gary Ray
 

Does anyone know the date of the banning? Also, how long were billboard cars allowed to run - was it just until they needed repainting? If memory serves me right, that would be about 7 years.

Gary Ray
Magalia, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)

Allen Cain wrote:

Help me out here. I thought that “billboard” paint schemes where outlawed well before the 1953 date on this car. If I am mistaken, please educate me.
Always remember that the primary issue addressed by the “ban” on billboard schemes was the provision by the leasing company of free advertising paint schemes for their lessees. And advertising in general, meaning posters or placards attached to cars by shippers, was banned early in the 20th century. As long as the lessee or car owner advertised THEMSELVES, for example a billboard-sized word like “HORMEL,” that was okay.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Brian Carlson
 

Guy Wilber already answered this earlier in the thread.

Brian J. Carlson

On Jul 24, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Gary Ray <gerber1926@gmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone know the date of the banning? Also, how long were billboard cars allowed to run - was it just until they needed repainting? If memory serves me right, that would be about 7 years.

Gary Ray
Magalia, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)

Allen Cain wrote:

Help me out here. I thought that “billboard” paint schemes where outlawed well before the 1953 date on this car. If I am mistaken, please educate me.
Always remember that the primary issue addressed by the “ban” on billboard schemes was the provision by the leasing company of free advertising paint schemes for their lessees. And advertising in general, meaning posters or placards attached to cars by shippers, was banned early in the 20th century. As long as the lessee or car owner advertised THEMSELVES, for example a billboard-sized word like “HORMEL,” that was okay.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com










Tony Thompson
 

No new ones after 1934, old ones banned from interchange in 1937 (or was it 1938?),
See the Billboard Reefer book by Hendrickson and Kaminski.
Tony Thompson

On Jul 24, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Gary Ray <gerber1926@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know the date of the banning? Also, how long were billboard cars allowed to run - was it just until they needed repainting? If memory serves me right, that would be about 7 years.

Gary Ray
Magalia, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)

Allen Cain wrote:

Help me out here. I thought that “billboard” paint schemes where outlawed well before the 1953 date on this car. If I am mistaken, please educate me.
Always remember that the primary issue addressed by the “ban” on billboard schemes was the provision by the leasing company of free advertising paint schemes for their lessees. And advertising in general, meaning posters or placards attached to cars by shippers, was banned early in the 20th century. As long as the lessee or car owner advertised THEMSELVES, for example a billboard-sized word like “HORMEL,” that was okay.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com












Tim O'Connor
 


Vendors are caught between a rock and a hard place.

If they (mostly) offer only kits at the inception of a model and once those are gone, that's it,
then that causes people to stock up IMMEDIATELY, and the supply disappears quickly.

But if vendors offer kits all the time (as INTERMOUNTAIN did when they were injection
molding the cars in Colorado) then people are less anxious to get one so the cars take years
to sell a single undec batch!

Tangent and Moloco have tried very hard to cater to kit builders but they have so many permutations
of features for their cars that it must be getting difficult to offer all of them - and for modelers to keep
track of them.


On 7/24/2021 11:50 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:
After decades of my getting Intermountain kits with nearly 100% fill rates, around 2010 the out of stock non-shipped kits started increasing for my purchases. This continued getting weaker until about 5 years ago the only kits I got were the inventory queens, and those too have now gone away. I have not received any of the 100's of back ordered kits since then.

I am now coming around to realize that most of those back ordered kits may never be shipped. Looking at Intermountain's list of HO undec kits, the only offered and in stock kits are some plastic containers. Not a single undec freight car kit is shown as being in stock and available for purchase. A select few kits are shown as "Reserve Now" which means that IM is taking reservations for those and probably intend to have these available in the future. In this list is both versions of the 1958 cu ft covered hoppers, along with several other covered hoppers and oddly, the former RC X29 cars and post-1955 40' box cars in welded/riveted and 6'/8' door configuration.
 
Intermountain seems to be showing us that their future selling of kits is in jeopardy. So no parts and no kits.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, July 24, 2021, 8:04:03 AM PDT, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


I've had undecorated kits of the 1958 Cu Ft hoppers with no cutout on backorder for almost 5 years.
--
Ken Adams


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts