ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings


Dave Lotz
 

I’m looking for drawings (primarily underframe general arrangement or brake arrangement) of the CB&Q’s GM-1 & 2 class 52’ 6” composite mill gons that were built in the late 1920s and retired by the 1950s for a modeling project.  Good photos showing where the cross members would be would also be helpful.  I may be reached offlist at Editor@....

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Dave Lotz




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Charles Greene
 

Dave,

Your query is kind of a coincidence since I'm looking for brake gear diagrams and/or photos also, albeit for a different car type. 

I've got a request into the Museum of Transportation (Kirkwood, MO) which holds diagrams of American Car and Foundry's (ACF) freight cars. If your composite mill gons were built by ACF you might try this source also. The curator is Teresa Militello at 
tma.teresa2@.... She has advised me that the search I requested might take some time so I thought I'd try 
RealSTMFC@groups.io while I'm waiting. 

I noticed that one of the addressees you used for your query is CBQ@groups.io., which is specific for the CB&Q cars you're building. I'm a brand new subscriber to this group so I'm not familiar with what specific sub-groups there may be. Do you know if there's one for early hopper cars? My project is a twin-bay car of late 19-teens/early 1920s vintage. 

          -Chuck

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 9:54 AM Dave Lotz <Dave_Lotz@...> wrote:

I’m looking for drawings (primarily underframe general arrangement or brake arrangement) of the CB&Q’s GM-1 & 2 class 52’ 6” composite mill gons that were built in the late 1920s and retired by the 1950s for a modeling project.  Good photos showing where the cross members would be would also be helpful.  I may be reached offlist at Editor@....

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Dave Lotz




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Ed Hawkins
 



On May 26, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Charles Greene <greenec1144@...> wrote:

Your query is kind of a coincidence since I'm looking for brake gear diagrams and/or photos also, albeit for a different car type. 

I've got a request into the Museum of Transportation (Kirkwood, MO) which holds diagrams of American Car and Foundry's (ACF) freight cars. If your composite mill gons were built by ACF you might try this source also. The curator is Teresa Militello at 
tma.teresa2@.... She has advised me that the search I requested might take some time so I thought I'd try 
RealSTMFC@groups.io while I'm waiting. 

I noticed that one of the addressees you used for your query is CBQ@groups.io., which is specific for the CB&Q cars you're building. I'm a brand new subscriber to this group so I'm not familiar with what specific sub-groups there may be. Do you know if there's one for early hopper cars? My project is a twin-bay car of late 19-teens/early 1920s vintage. 

          -Chuck

Chuck & Dave,
Just a note that the NMOT’s ACF drawing collection has relative-few drawings dating back to the 1920s. The only STMFC-period drawings of Burlington freight cars donated to the museum are for ballast cars built in lots 1789 (220500-220599) & 2215 (221000-221249). 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Dave Lotz
 

Steve Hile sent me the Q’s car diagram page for these cars and it shows these were built by both Western Steel Car & Foundry (WSC&F) and the Q and they were 48’6” Inside Length, not 52’ 6”.

 

Dave




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Charlie Vlk
 

All-

The CB&Q GM is a single sheathed car and appears in The Model Railroader Cyclopedia on page 121.   The drawing is a very early Linn Wescott rendered pen and ink drawing without dimensions and a generic partial side and end view of an Ajax brake wheel application is included.  Photos of the car are attached; the MOW car shows the position of the air reservoir  and triple valve.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2021 2:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

 



On May 26, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Charles Greene <greenec1144@...> wrote:

 

Your query is kind of a coincidence since I'm looking for brake gear diagrams and/or photos also, albeit for a different car type. 

 

I've got a request into the Museum of Transportation (Kirkwood, MO) which holds diagrams of American Car and Foundry's (ACF) freight cars. If your composite mill gons were built by ACF you might try this source also. The curator is Teresa Militello at 

tma.teresa2@.... She has advised me that the search I requested might take some time so I thought I'd try 

RealSTMFC@groups.io while I'm waiting. 

 

I noticed that one of the addressees you used for your query is CBQ@groups.io., which is specific for the CB&Q cars you're building. I'm a brand new subscriber to this group so I'm not familiar with what specific sub-groups there may be. Do you know if there's one for early hopper cars? My project is a twin-bay car of late 19-teens/early 1920s vintage. 

 

          -Chuck

 

Chuck & Dave,

Just a note that the NMOT’s ACF drawing collection has relative-few drawings dating back to the 1920s. The only STMFC-period drawings of Burlington freight cars donated to the museum are for ballast cars built in lots 1789 (220500-220599) & 2215 (221000-221249). 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 


Charles Greene
 

Ed,

Yes, when I first contacted Ms. Militello at NMOT she advised that there was a paucity of 1920s diagrams and that they were not yet catalogued and would thus require a lot of time to research. She said she thought she would have better luck finding lever/rod diagrams of 1930-era-and-beyond cars. I told her I'd be satisfied with the latter 1930 period because my sense is that there was probably not much design change in the lever/rod arrangement/attachment between 1920 and 1930. Heck, I'll take 1930 diagrams....beggars can't be choosers....ha!

         -Chuck

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 3:10 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-

The CB&Q GM is a single sheathed car and appears in The Model Railroader Cyclopedia on page 121.   The drawing is a very early Linn Wescott rendered pen and ink drawing without dimensions and a generic partial side and end view of an Ajax brake wheel application is included.  Photos of the car are attached; the MOW car shows the position of the air reservoir  and triple valve.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2021 2:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

 



On May 26, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Charles Greene <greenec1144@...> wrote:

 

Your query is kind of a coincidence since I'm looking for brake gear diagrams and/or photos also, albeit for a different car type. 

 

I've got a request into the Museum of Transportation (Kirkwood, MO) which holds diagrams of American Car and Foundry's (ACF) freight cars. If your composite mill gons were built by ACF you might try this source also. The curator is Teresa Militello at 

tma.teresa2@.... She has advised me that the search I requested might take some time so I thought I'd try 

RealSTMFC@groups.io while I'm waiting. 

 

I noticed that one of the addressees you used for your query is CBQ@groups.io., which is specific for the CB&Q cars you're building. I'm a brand new subscriber to this group so I'm not familiar with what specific sub-groups there may be. Do you know if there's one for early hopper cars? My project is a twin-bay car of late 19-teens/early 1920s vintage. 

 

          -Chuck

 

Chuck & Dave,

Just a note that the NMOT’s ACF drawing collection has relative-few drawings dating back to the 1920s. The only STMFC-period drawings of Burlington freight cars donated to the museum are for ballast cars built in lots 1789 (220500-220599) & 2215 (221000-221249). 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 

Attachments:


Frank Hodina
 

This is timely as I've been looking for another composite gon to do a kit of. One is the CB&Q GM-1/2 while the other is a CNW 48'-6" car. Have drawings for the CNW gon, but can't find any in service photos. For the GM-1/2 there's no information on the underframe to do a pattern. Jerry Hamsmith put together this short history on the GM-1/2's.

Frank
Resin Car Works


Nelson Moyer
 

Check the BRHS data sheet titled, Burlington’s Composite Gondola Fleet. Page 8 and page 10 contain information on modifications to GS-1/2 gondolas. Some had the sides cut down like the GA-15 USRA gondolas, and others had the wood sheathing replaced with cut boxcar end panels. According to this reference, 150 GS-1 and GS-2 cars got metal sides and ends in 1944. Plus four additional drop doors. This group was numbered in the 72000-72149 series. There’s a diagram of the before and after drop door arrangements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frank Hodina
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 9:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

This is timely as I've been looking for another composite gon to do a kit of. One is the CB&Q GM-1/2 while the other is a CNW 48'-6" car. Have drawings for the CNW gon, but can't find any in service photos. For the GM-1/2 there's no information on the underframe to do a pattern. Jerry Hamsmith put together this short history on the GM-1/2's.

Frank
Resin Car Works

_._,_._,_

 


Charlie Vlk
 

Nelson-

Topic is GM 1 & 2, not GS….different cars.
Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 11:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

Check the BRHS data sheet titled, Burlington’s Composite Gondola Fleet. Page 8 and page 10 contain information on modifications to GS-1/2 gondolas. Some had the sides cut down like the GA-15 USRA gondolas, and others had the wood sheathing replaced with cut boxcar end panels. According to this reference, 150 GS-1 and GS-2 cars got metal sides and ends in 1944. Plus four additional drop doors. This group was numbered in the 72000-72149 series. There’s a diagram of the before and after drop door arrangements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frank Hodina
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 9:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

This is timely as I've been looking for another composite gon to do a kit of. One is the CB&Q GM-1/2 while the other is a CNW 48'-6" car. Have drawings for the CNW gon, but can't find any in service photos. For the GM-1/2 there's no information on the underframe to do a pattern. Jerry Hamsmith put together this short history on the GM-1/2's.

Frank
Resin Car Works


Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, I missed that distinction. I wonder why the GM1/2 series weren’t covered in the data sheet, since they were composite gondolas, and the title implies that the data sheet covers ‘Burlington’s Composite Gondola Fleet’. It covers GAs, GBs, GSs, and GTs, but no GMs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

Nelson-

Topic is GM 1 & 2, not GS….different cars.
Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 11:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

Check the BRHS data sheet titled, Burlington’s Composite Gondola Fleet. Page 8 and page 10 contain information on modifications to GS-1/2 gondolas. Some had the sides cut down like the GA-15 USRA gondolas, and others had the wood sheathing replaced with cut boxcar end panels. According to this reference, 150 GS-1 and GS-2 cars got metal sides and ends in 1944. Plus four additional drop doors. This group was numbered in the 72000-72149 series. There’s a diagram of the before and after drop door arrangements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frank Hodina
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 9:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

This is timely as I've been looking for another composite gon to do a kit of. One is the CB&Q GM-1/2 while the other is a CNW 48'-6" car. Have drawings for the CNW gon, but can't find any in service photos. For the GM-1/2 there's no information on the underframe to do a pattern. Jerry Hamsmith put together this short history on the GM-1/2's.

Frank
Resin Car Works


Charlie Vlk
 

Nelson-

Even though their were 1500 composite GMs built they were largely gone by our lifetime. A few survived in MOW service.

The first batch was built by Western Steel Car & Foundry in 1925 as GM-1 and had 5’-6” wb #50 trucks and the second GM-2 by Galesburg in 1925 and were equipped with 5’4”wb #31-B trucks.  Otherwise, the two classes appear to be identical.

Charlie Vlk

 

PS-  Micro-Trains makes a credible N Scale model of the CB&Q car that has a brake wheel instead of the lever type.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

Yes, I missed that distinction. I wonder why the GM1/2 series weren’t covered in the data sheet, since they were composite gondolas, and the title implies that the data sheet covers ‘Burlington’s Composite Gondola Fleet’. It covers GAs, GBs, GSs, and GTs, but no GMs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

Nelson-

Topic is GM 1 & 2, not GS….different cars.
Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 11:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

Check the BRHS data sheet titled, Burlington’s Composite Gondola Fleet. Page 8 and page 10 contain information on modifications to GS-1/2 gondolas. Some had the sides cut down like the GA-15 USRA gondolas, and others had the wood sheathing replaced with cut boxcar end panels. According to this reference, 150 GS-1 and GS-2 cars got metal sides and ends in 1944. Plus four additional drop doors. This group was numbered in the 72000-72149 series. There’s a diagram of the before and after drop door arrangements.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frank Hodina
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 9:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ISO CB&Q GM-1 & 2 Drawings

 

This is timely as I've been looking for another composite gon to do a kit of. One is the CB&Q GM-1/2 while the other is a CNW 48'-6" car. Have drawings for the CNW gon, but can't find any in service photos. For the GM-1/2 there's no information on the underframe to do a pattern. Jerry Hamsmith put together this short history on the GM-1/2's.

Frank
Resin Car Works


al_brown03
 

There's a photo of C&NW 72169 in Trains 3/91, pp 28-29, on the tail end of an excursion train of all things.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.