Date
21 - 31 of 31
Kadee Trucks
rwitt_2000
Tim O'Connor wrote: "At a train club I belonged to, MANY cars with
Kadee wheels (mostly in non-Kadee sideframes) wore down the ends of the axles to a round nub! In a high-use context, metal axles last longer... But yeah, on a private low-mileage layout, it's probably not an issue." ====================================== Tim, Were non-Kadee truck frames metal or plastic? Some of the problem of wear may relate to what JP Barger noted in his presentations on truck frames and wheel-sets that one wants metal axles in plastic truck frames or the opposite. Kadee's older trucks always had plastic axles in metal truck frames. It will be interesting to see how the new plastic-on-plastic combination will perform long-term. Bob Witt
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Andy Harman
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:49:33 -0000, rwitt_2000 wrote
Tim O'Connor wrote: "At a train club I belonged to, MANY cars withI put Kadee wheelsets into various one-piece delrin trucks over the years. Athearn, MDC, Walthers, Train Miniature etc. I don't know what the wear profile was but the rolling quality was definitely inferior. Funny, that AHM 6-dome car we were talking about... I looked at it last night and it appears to have Kadee wheelsets stuck into ancient Athearn sprung trucks, or the AHM equivalent - but most AHM cars I remember did not have sprung trucks. It is interesting how we've come full circle from sprung, to one-piece, to some bad attempts at non-sprung equalization, to sprung, to one-piece, and now Kadee's functional, equalized new design. There was a time when a freight car truck was a freight car truck, and I just tried to find one that would perform and didn't care if it was the correct truck. Now I go blind looking at all of the un-branded delrin trucks I have in my junkbox and try to figure out what they are and if I can use them. Anybody remember a time - late 60s or early 70s - when Athearn was putting their then-new delrin roller bearing truck in *every* kit, from their most modern to 40' box cars to ice reefers? I've often wondered if they just ran out of their "Bettendorf" trucks and didn't feel like making a run, or if the mold was down for repair or what. I do still pull out Athearn cars from back then... like an SP steam era box car, and there are those roller bearing trucks. Andy
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Bob, they were plastic.
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One thing you can do with plastic-plastic contact is put graphite in the bearing. This is very easy with Neo-Lube which is a paintable graphite. With metal-metal contact I sometimes use moly-grease or a teflon-grease and this seems to mitigate the squeaking that develops. In other cases I use Tichy nylon bearings, especially for brass truck sideframes designed for stubby (shouldered?) journals. Tim O'
Tim O'Connor wrote: "At a train club I belonged to, MANY cars with
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Andy Harman
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 17:27:01 -0400, Tim O'Connor wrote
is a paintable graphite. With metal-metal contact I sometimesWhenever I have metal to metal, I use Labelle 102 which is called "gear oil". It's considerably thicker than 107 or 108. Typically a car lubed with 108 starts squeaking again in 15 minutes (particularly Walthers passenger cars). The ones I lubed with 102, I haven't had to re-lube after several years of both running and sitting. Andy
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Mike Fleming
I use Kadee wheelsets exclusively and about 90% on the stock trucks. I use a truck tuner to clean out and shape the pocket on the trucks and I have found that the ride quality improves and I have never had an axle or truck frame failure.
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The caveat is that if I am using the truck tuner on a bunch of cars at once it really aggrivates the arthritis in my thumb. Mike Fleming Superintendent, Bluff City Div. SER, NMRA President Emeritus, Memphis Society of Model Railroaders Vice President, Memphis Railroad and Trolley Museum Model Railroad Club, a 100% NMRA Member Club
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From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee Trucks Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 17:27:01 -0400 Bob, they were plastic. One thing you can do with plastic-plastic contact is put graphite in the bearing. This is very easy with Neo-Lube which is a paintable graphite. With metal-metal contact I sometimes use moly-grease or a teflon-grease and this seems to mitigate the squeaking that develops. In other cases I use Tichy nylon bearings, especially for brass truck sideframes designed for stubby (shouldered?) journals. Tim O' Tim O'Connor wrote: "At a train club I belonged to, MANY cars with
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dennyanspach <danspach@...>
I have had, and have been using Kadee's 0.088" tread wheel sets for about six months. They look good -even great- and roll well, especially so in their new trucks (not surprising, perhaps!). As expected, the quality control is superb.
How the plastic/plastic journal/bearing interface will wear in the long run is not yet in evidence; but, as pointed out, it probably would not be close to a relevant issue for the vast majority of us. In any case, there would be no difference in this regard as compared to Kadee's standard wheel sets because they share the same axles. In my rollability tests with the beautiful new Kadee Barber plain bearing trucks, both the Kadee and the Reboxx 0.088" tread replacement wheel sets (the latter with 1.020" axles) rolled only insignificantly better than the OEM standard wheel sets, not enough to make changes on that basis alone. With none of the tested wheel sets, however, did these Barber trucks roll beyond a mid-point "Acceptable/Good" level, a point just beyond half way to the "Superior" level of rollability achieved by a number of other contemporary trucks- most with replacement wheel sets. A similar test (less the Kadee 0.088" wheel sets) with the equally new Barber S3 roller bearing trucks demonstrated about a 50% increase in rollability with Reboxx 1.025" wheel sets as compared to the OEM sets. Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento
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brianleppert@att.net
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:
OK Paul, for you and other truck-challenged modelers <grin>, here's some applications for National Malleable & Steel Castings Co's "B" trucks on 40' steel box cars. 1937 AAR 10' IH Box Cars: CN 472500-472799 blt 1937-38 Type B 477350-477649 blt 1939 Type B 485515-485764 blt 1944 B-1 ERIE 78000-78249 blt 1936 Type B 78500-78999 blt 1940 Type B T&P 40000-40499 blt 1937 Type B 1937 AAR Modified Box Cars: ATSF Bx-34 some blt 1940 B-1 Bx-37 some blt 1941-42 B-1 CB&Q 33750-33827 blt 1942 B-1 34000-34171 blt 1942 B-1 ERIE 80000-80199 blt 1941 Type B IC 17800-17999 blt 1939 Type B 18800-18999 blt 1939 Type B 19300-19499 blt 1940 Type B NP 27350-27499 blt 1942 B-1 27500-27999 blt 1942 B-1 Post-War Box Cars: DL&W 52500-52999 blt 12-48 B-1 ERIE 82000-82499 blt 10-45 B-1 Sunshine offers a mini-kit for the IC box cars. Cudahy's 36' meat reefer, also from Sunshine, can use the B-1 truck, depending on built date. Athearn did a pretty good rendition of the B-1. However, their brake shoes sat too high above the railhead and Athearn choose not to market the trucks separately. As kind of a truck nut myself, I sure do welcome Kadee's new truck. Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV
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Denny, are you testing the trucks with or without a car on top
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of them? I only test trucks with cars, and my measurements with the Kadee HGC trucks puts them only very slightly behind Tahoe trucks, and superior to most other truck/wheelset combinations. The weight of a car makes a very big difference, in my experience. Tim O'Connor
In my rollability tests with the beautiful new Kadee Barber plain bearing trucks, both the Kadee and the Reboxx 0.088" tread replacement wheel sets (the latter with 1.020" axles) rolled only insignificantly better than the OEM standard wheel sets, not enough to make changes on that basis alone. With none of the tested wheel sets, however, did these Barber trucks roll beyond a mid-point "Acceptable/Good" level, a point just beyond half way to the "Superior" level of rollability achieved by a number of other contemporary trucks- most with replacement wheel sets.
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dennyanspach <danspach@...>
Tim O'C inquires about the effect of weight on truck rolling test data.
I do not routinely test truck rollability with/without weights, although I do so on occasion. My reason for not doing so is that I use the test data to conveniently guide my choices of wheel sets going forward (not excluding leaving OEM alone!) without having to parse out with testing anew with each install the usual small inherent differences resulting from both variable weighting, but also rollability differences caused by the common variability between nominally-identical trucks. Sometimes the weight improves rollability, occasionally in dramatic fashion; while at other times, the same weight can all but stop a truck dead in its tracks. Most of the time, in real time, it makes no difference. As to the new Kadee trucks, I did indeed test the Barber S3 with and without weight. The weight (a 1-oz. lead block balanced on the truck bolster) caused the rollability to improve, but ever so slightly- remaining still in the midst of the Acceptable/Good field. This was why it was not mentioned. Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento
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Denny, a 1 oz load is about 1/2 the typical load of a freight
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car. There are also rolling dynamics involved. And under load, the shape of the bearing and journal, and the materials, makes a big difference. Kato ASF A-3 trucks for example roll incredibly well without a load, but as the load increases, the performance is affected -- it's almost a straight-line correlation. I roll test every car that I put together, or make ready for operation. It takes a little time, maybe 20 minutes, to identify the proper truck design for that model and then find a model truck and wheelset combination that gives good results. It's makes no difference to me how well a truck rolls "in theory". For example, remember those old Lindbergh trucks? Those things rolled like crazy, we thought they were miraculous in the 1960's. Oh wait, until you put a car on them. Then your results may vary. Tim O'Connor
Tim O'C inquires about the effect of weight on truck rolling test data.
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docdenny34 <danspach@...>
Tim, I cannot disagree with your own results and/nor your reasoning. However, perhaps i did not make clear that in my own experience over the years, the "theoretical" (your term) results recorded from the rolltester seem to broadly track observable real-time rollability under the car on the layout. This is not always, of course, but it is enough for me to use the recorded data as a reliable guide without the routine of additionally testing the results under a car.
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The one oz. test load is not ideal, but most of the time it seems to be enough; and of course, it is simply additive to whatever the weight of the truck cum wheels might be- relatively little fora Tahoe or Accurail truck, relatively more for Kadee with their metal-bearing plastic frames. I don't routinely weight my cars to exact NMRA standards, but when challenged, the cars actually weigh out pretty close- mostl very slightly on the light side. No problems. As for the Lindberg trucks, placing weight on them did, and does make them roll by themselves even on a flat surface. However, they also will -by themselves- roll uphill after replacement by Reboxx wheels- with or without weight. Denny
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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