I can see there's some misinformation about this. In the mid-1990s
I furnished Kato an ACF paint sample for a SSW 1,958 cu.ft. covered
hopper car, and they matched the color perfectly. The sample is very
much a shade of gray and olive green. However, Kato made an error by
applying this color to the wrong series of SSW cars. I didn't know
about the error until after the models were produced.

The ACF paint sample I provided Kato was from ACF lot no. 3376, built
10-49, series 77000-77049. ACF built one other order of 1958 cu. ft.
cars for SSW in 8-51, lot 3547, series 76050-76074. There was no paint
sample for the second order, so I don't know if the color was the same
as the 1949-built cars. Kato chose to model cars from the second
series, but to be more accurate they should have used the first series.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

On the other hand, Kato really screwed the pooch with those GREEN
Cotton Belt cars! Woof!

If by "woof" you mean "what an ugly color," I'll agree with
you. If you mean "bogus Cotton Belt color," I'd urge you to read Ed
Hawkins' posts more carefully.

Tony Thompson

Steve,

I didn't see any other responses to your query. Since you model the UP, why not model a UP car? Assuming these are the 2-bay covered hoppers, the open-side kit is suitable for UP CH-70-1, and the closed-side kit is suitable for the UP CH-70-2 and CH-70-3.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of StephenK
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers



Actually I'm the Steve Kay from Cleveland, Ohio, and I model UP. Most of the western roads that had these cars painted them gray, and the Kato model have a lot of flexible plastic parts, so painting them could be a problem. I am looking at alternatives, but leaving all the cars in their factory paint jobs is another alternative....

SKay

--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "jdziedzic08802" <jerdz@> wrote:

I have no opinion of the Kato couplers. I'd take advantage of experience and use the couplers you're most familiar with -- Accumates.

If you're the Steve Kay from NJ, L&NE would be a natural choice for a third road name. I believe that Champ still offers decals in L&NE's billboard scheme. They're intended for a different prototype than this car, but they have enough material to select from to letter this car.

N&B would be another selection. Herald King had decals. Don't know whether they remain available.

There are probably minor differences in detail between the Kato version and the prototypes I suggested. One I'd want to check is whether or not the prototype has the triangular cut out in the sides at the center of the car. I don't remember whether the Kato car has this feature or not.

I can suggest L&NE and N&B number series to you, but this will have to wait until mid-April because I'm away from my files right now. Let me know if you'd like this.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ

--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "StephenK" <thekays100@> wrote:

Last weekend I picked up two sets of Kato covered hopper kits at a local trainshow for very little $$$. One is Wabash and one is Erie. I searched the group but was unable to get answers to two questions. First, are the Kato couplers worth using, or should I used the Accumates that I generally use? Also, since I really don't need three of each of these(which is why I never bought these before--at the regular price), I am looking for other prototypes/decals to paint these. I found some nice sets from Prime Mover Decals for EL, but would like a few other alternatives. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Kay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My, my. This is the most traffic I remember a covered hopper post ever generating. And there's lots of interesting info, from painting tips for flexible parts to the origins of Kato's SSW paint color.

I agree with Ben: LNE ceased operations, but did not go through bankruptcy proceedings.

I agree with Tim: the LNE cars that found their way to UP were the Greenville cars, not the "Kato/ACF/GATC/Ralston" design. In my opinion, L&NE's Greenville cars were very similar to PS-2's in appearance.

On the other hand, Tim, forgive me a mild challenge. I'm not certain that P-S ever delivered CH's to L&NE. I'd have to go back to my files to back up this challenge. I don't mind you setting the record straight before I actually get to my files.

Scott, it's nice to hear from you. Been many years. Forgive me another challenge: I regard hatches and hatch locking devices as optional appliances, not as distinguishing design features. ACF cars delivered to major "anthracite road" cement carriers varied in hatch design, configuration (not just 8 or 10-hatch versions, but the longitudinal spacing of the hatches along the roof) and locking devices.

Cleveland Kay, I enjoy debating details like this with other listers. But this may be more information than you asked for. Decide if you want scale models exact in every detail or some degree of "close enough." I think the Kato cars are good models, and I have several examples running on my layout. Get some prototype photos, model away, and enjoy.

Finally, Mr. Moderator, please don't jail me for the advice to Cleveland Kay, though it runs a little astray of the STMFC mission. This is fun for all of us, each in his own way.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@> wrote:

Steve,

I didn't see any other responses to your query. Since you model the UP, why not model a UP car? Assuming these are the 2-bay covered hoppers, the open-side kit is suitable for UP CH-70-1, and the closed-side kit is suitable for the UP CH-70-2 and CH-70-3.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of StephenK
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers



Actually I'm the Steve Kay from Cleveland, Ohio, and I model UP. Most of the western roads that had these cars painted them gray, and the Kato model have a lot of flexible plastic parts, so painting them could be a problem. I am looking at alternatives, but leaving all the cars in their factory paint jobs is another alternative....

SKay

--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "jdziedzic08802" <jerdz@> wrote:

I have no opinion of the Kato couplers. I'd take advantage of experience and use the couplers you're most familiar with -- Accumates.

If you're the Steve Kay from NJ, L&NE would be a natural choice for a third road name. I believe that Champ still offers decals in L&NE's billboard scheme. They're intended for a different prototype than this car, but they have enough material to select from to letter this car.

N&B would be another selection. Herald King had decals. Don't know whether they remain available.

There are probably minor differences in detail between the Kato version and the prototypes I suggested. One I'd want to check is whether or not the prototype has the triangular cut out in the sides at the center of the car. I don't remember whether the Kato car has this feature or not.

I can suggest L&NE and N&B number series to you, but this will have to wait until mid-April because I'm away from my files right now. Let me know if you'd like this.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ

--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "StephenK" <thekays100@> wrote:

Last weekend I picked up two sets of Kato covered hopper kits at a local trainshow for very little $$$. One is Wabash and one is Erie. I searched the group but was unable to get answers to two questions. First, are the Kato couplers worth using, or should I used the Accumates that I generally use? Also, since I really don't need three of each of these(which is why I never bought these before--at the regular price), I am looking for other prototypes/decals to paint these. I found some nice sets from Prime Mover Decals for EL, but would like a few other alternatives. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Kay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IIRC the KATO HO and N ACF Covered Hopper colors were researched with the assistance of Ed Hawkins. Craig Holmberg was doing the HO R&D at the time, just before and after I joined Kato, I believe the prototype drawings used were an ACF car. Not to say the interpretation of the colors by the factory was perfect..... there wasn't very much in the way of a sample / approval process and it is a wonder that things turned out as well as they did.

I do recall Craig having battles with the factory regarding their "pran" to tool the car as a three-car kit, making it impossible to offer singles. I cannot recall any accuracy issues but that doesn't mean there were none. It is a shame that the cars (because of the price point and HO 3-pack kit / N 2-pack and Kato's inability to supply smaller production lots with more roadnames and roadnumbers) turned out to be dogs in the marketplace. The N Scale version sold poorly and had bum couplers to add insult to injury...so never made it to the planned second production of "peek-a-boo" version with the cutouts to the slide sheets. Hopefully Inter-Mountain will see fit to offer their cars in N soon.

Charlie Vlk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 9, 2010, at 8:30 AM, rockroll50401 wrote:

Jerry touched on hatch spacing. How many customers bought cars with
evenly spaced hatches? (Not the normal center two together)
Clark Propst

Clark,
The following cars had evenly-spaced hatches. They were built between
Jan. 1947 and Sept. 1950. It's possible there were others, but this is
the list of cars that I'm aware of.

GM&O 80000-80049 (Pullman-Standard), 80500-80649 (ACF, two groups)
M&StL 70101-70199 odd (Pulman-Standard)
MILW 99325-99574 (Milw. Rd. shops)
SHPX 25478-25480 (leased to Westvaco Chemical) (ACF)
SI 4003-4025 (13 cars sold to NP 75130-75142 ca. 1955) (ACF)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers
has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches.
We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece
and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at
this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body
so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@... If we
can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you
are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the
works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville.
As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of
our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project
being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a
project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.

Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers
has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches.
We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece
and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at
this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body
so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@... If we
can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you
are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the
works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville.
As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of
our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project
being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a
project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.

Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers
has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches.
We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece
and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at
this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body
so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@... If we
can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you
are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the
works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville.
As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of
our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project
being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a
project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.

Ok Tim, so in your opinion should we do a roof good for the Q or should we do one with evenly spaced hatches that would have broader appeal? I know where I would put my money. Denis Blake
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Denis

What you do with your money is up to you.

But it's not a "Q" roof -- several railroads had them, including the
AT&SF, C&EI, NP, MP, CB&Q, C&S... There were thousands of them. I don't
know why you think the evenly spaced hatches have "broad appeal" -- 350
or so cars of 5 railroads (200 of them GM&O!), plus 3 SHPX cars?

Ok Tim, so in your opinion should we do a roof good for the Q or should
we do one with evenly spaced hatches that would have broader appeal? I know
where I would put my money. Denis Blake