Model: SRLX 6310


Bob Chaparro
 

Model: SRLX 6310

I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA.

The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme.

My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 

I notice it’s derailed.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:14 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

 

Model: SRLX 6310

I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA.

The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme.

My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


brianleppert@att.net
 

From Carroll Schmitt collection

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Scott
 

There has been discussion that the top was reefer yellow not red.  The letters in the photo above are to dark in my opinion to be gold.  But it doesn't make much sense as why they would not have painted the top red.  I have the sunshine kit but haven't finished it.  I cant decide which way to go on it with the paint job.

Scott McDonald 


Richard Townsend
 

Clover House offers dry transfers for this scheme.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Sep 13, 2021 11:14 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

Model: SRLX 6310
I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA.
The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme.
My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:20 PM, Scott wrote:
There has been discussion that the top was reefer yellow not red.  The letters in the photo above are to dark in my opinion to be gold.  But it doesn't make much sense as why they would not have painted the top red.  I have the sunshine kit but haven't finished it.  I cant decide which way to go on it with the paint job.
Wow, what a can of worms. Knowing how some older B&W film rendered colors, my first thought was that the bottom color was red, while the upper color was blue and the lettering yellow. But WWII seems too late for orthochromatic film, and I've seen that film make blue literally disappear, so my next thought was the photographer used a color filter to get better tonal separation between the red and blue since both normally print as mid-tone gray. A red filter would have darkened the blue and lightened the red, but would have turned the yellow  lettering white. All I can surmise is the lettering in the red band was not yellow, OR was painted a different color specifically for this photo.

Dennis Storzek


 

I was going to reply something similar, but then remembered we used to use yellow filters to pop SP’s red nose out from the gray. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Sep 13, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Dennis Storzek <dennis@...> wrote:

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:20 PM, Scott wrote:
There has been discussion that the top was reefer yellow not red.  The letters in the photo above are to dark in my opinion to be gold.  But it doesn't make much sense as why they would not have painted the top red.  I have the sunshine kit but haven't finished it.  I cant decide which way to go on it with the paint job.
Wow, what a can of worms. Knowing how some older B&W film rendered colors, my first thought was that the bottom color was red, while the upper color was blue and the lettering yellow. But WWII seems too late for orthochromatic film, and I've seen that film make blue literally disappear, so my next thought was the photographer used a color filter to get better tonal separation between the red and blue since both normally print as mid-tone gray. A red filter would have darkened the blue and lightened the red, but would have turned the yellow  lettering white. All I can surmise is the lettering in the red band was not yellow, OR was painted a different color specifically for this photo.

Dennis Storzek


robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <dennis@accurail.com>

But WWII seems too late for orthochromatic film...
Yes, panchromatic film was available in those days, but I'm not at all certain its use was general. Verichrome, what one got at the drugstore when one asked for "film", was orthochromatic and wasn't replaced by Verichrome Pan until 1956. Further, it appears that there were several, at least three, versions of panchromatic film which varied in their sensitivity to red light. Thus it's possible that the photo in question could have been made on almost any kind of film ever known to man. If the photographer used a colored filter then all bets are off.

"The past is a foreign country."


--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


Dennis Storzek
 

I'm going to rock the boat a bit more. First, a photo to illustrate the problem, courtesy of the Protocraft web site:



Which stripe is red, and which is blue? If you said the top stripe is red, color photos of this famous paint scheme would prove you wrong...

Who ever said the red has to be on top?

And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo. I sure hope Rapido has some documentation other than that one photo for their red on top decision, because I think it's wrong...

Dennis Storzek


Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 07:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo.
Dennis, I had the same thoughts while I was reading your previous message.  Further, the models have the BUY MORE WAR BONDS letting in blue that matches the lower band of color. But to my eye, in the protofoto the lettering matches the upper band.

Jack Mullen


Steve and Barb Hile
 

There is at least one other photo of a Swift reefer in the Buy More War Bonds scheme.  It is in the Hendrickson/Kaminsky Billboard reefer book and shows car 6306 and two other cars.  In this view, the lettering in the top band is lighter than the background color.  I can’t post the entire photo, but here is a snip to show what I am saying.

 

 

There is certainly a difference between the color of the word REFRIGERATOR compared to the dimensional data in the lower band (blue one, probably.)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:20 PM, Scott wrote:

There has been discussion that the top was reefer yellow not red.  The letters in the photo above are to dark in my opinion to be gold.  But it doesn't make much sense as why they would not have painted the top red.  I have the sunshine kit but haven't finished it.  I cant decide which way to go on it with the paint job.

Wow, what a can of worms. Knowing how some older B&W film rendered colors, my first thought was that the bottom color was red, while the upper color was blue and the lettering yellow. But WWII seems too late for orthochromatic film, and I've seen that film make blue literally disappear, so my next thought was the photographer used a color filter to get better tonal separation between the red and blue since both normally print as mid-tone gray. A red filter would have darkened the blue and lightened the red, but would have turned the yellow  lettering white. All I can surmise is the lettering in the red band was not yellow, OR was painted a different color specifically for this photo.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 


red is on the BOTTOM in every photo I've seen


On 9/13/2021 10:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I'm going to rock the boat a bit more. First, a photo to illustrate the problem, courtesy of the Protocraft web site:



Which stripe is red, and which is blue? If you said the top stripe is red, color photos of this famous paint scheme would prove you wrong...

Who ever said the red has to be on top?

And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo. I sure hope Rapido has some documentation other than that one photo for their red on top decision, because I think it's wrong...

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


I should have said every COLOR photo I have seen shows red on the bottom in State Of Maine paint.
Black and white photos, on the other hand...

Tim O'Connor


On 9/13/2021 10:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I'm going to rock the boat a bit more. First, a photo to illustrate the problem, courtesy of the Protocraft web site:



Which stripe is red, and which is blue? If you said the top stripe is red, color photos of this famous paint scheme would prove you wrong...

Who ever said the red has to be on top?

And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo. I sure hope Rapido has some documentation other than that one photo for their red on top decision, because I think it's wrong...

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Dan Miller
 

Thanks very much for this photo, Brian.  Aside from the question of stripe color, it looks like many of the details of this car differ from the Rapido offering.

Dan Miller


Dennis Storzek
 



From the Carroll Schmitt collection

I think everyone is missing my point. The B&W photos of the State of Maine cars establish the problem facing the photographer; Without a filter, both the red and blue stripe will print as almost the same shade of gray. To capture the colorful nature of the car, he must choose a filter. If we can determine which filter he chose, we can use that to decipher the placement of the colors.

This web site has a very good visual aid of the effect of different filters on ALL the colors in the composition:
https://www.photographymad.com/pages/view/using-coloured-filters-in-black-and-white-photography
Page down a bit to the chart.

We can see that the filter lightens like colors, but also affects the other colors in a predictable way.

If the top stripe was RED, a red filter would lighten it, but would also turn the yellow (or dulux gold) "refrigerator" lettering white. Such is not the case.

If the top stripe is Blue, a blue filter would lighten it, but would also turn the "refrigerator" lettering dark, which it did  Blue is the only color filter that will turn yellow or gold lettering dark.

Therefore, the top stripe is blue.

Dennis Storzek


Scott
 

Gold lettering on a Blue background would make more sense then a Red background for visibility.

Scott McDonald