Topics

[Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

To add;

I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that; it is gospel. Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue. There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual.

NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars. NO ONE. There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife. I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached). No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of. And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these. Really? Then what are we looking at in this pic? And what is that car attached to 507? "It didn't exist".

And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it. And it IS a great freight car kit, too!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models.

I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right.
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design.

Tim O'Connor





On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:


Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection. Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them. They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car.
I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car. The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car. I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car.


I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car. Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car. Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the
Overland car. Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car.


My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short. This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct.


These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models that they produced. I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco. Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model.


Bill Pardie






Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...> <mailto:tony@...>
Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


Bruce Smith wrote:



I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment, and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the design of this car.



You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was less than happy about what eventually came from OMI.
At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at. I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for OMI.



Tony Thompson
tony@... <mailto:tony@...>







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Elden,

I'd like very much to know more about that tank car you and Greg saw in LA and its history. I have three of those Tichy 4020 tank car kits that have been sitting on a shelf for some time now. I'd be great for any prototype identification or other info you might be able to provide - maybe even a photo?

Thanks,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

To add;

I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that; it is gospel. Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue. There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual.

NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars. NO ONE. There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife. I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached). No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of. And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these. Really? Then what are we looking at in this pic? And what is that car attached to 507? "It didn't exist".

And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it. And it IS a great freight car kit, too!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models.

I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right.
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design.

Tim O'Connor





On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:


Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection. Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them. They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car.
I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car. The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car. I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car.


I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car. Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car. Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the
Overland car. Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car.


My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short. This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct.


These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models that they produced. I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco. Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model.


Bill Pardie






Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...> <mailto:tony@...>
Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


Bruce Smith wrote:



I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment, and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the design of this car.



You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was less than happy about what eventually came from OMI.
At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at. I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for OMI.



Tony Thompson
tony@... <mailto:tony@...>







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ralph;

I know next to nothing about the prototype other than from what I saw from the other side of a hurricane fence. It was on an industrial property siding. Greg and I both saw it at different times. It looked almost exactly like the large-dome Tichy car, with maybe slightly rounder tank heads, and did have AB brakes. From what I remember, it had painted out UTLX lettering. I had taken a photo, but it was destroyed along with most of my photo/slide collection in a flood in 1995.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Hi Elden,

I'd like very much to know more about that tank car you and Greg saw in LA and its history. I have three of those Tichy 4020 tank car kits that have been sitting on a shelf for some time now. I'd be great for any prototype identification or other info you might be able to provide - maybe even a photo?

Thanks,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

To add;

I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that; it is gospel. Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue. There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual.

NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars. NO ONE. There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife. I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached). No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of. And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these. Really? Then what are we looking at in this pic?
And what is that car attached to 507? "It didn't exist".

And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it. And it IS a great freight car kit, too!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models.

I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right.
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design.

Tim O'Connor





On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:


Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection. Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them. They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car.
I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car. The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car. I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car.


I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car. Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car. Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the Overland car. Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car.


My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short. This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct.


These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models
that they produced. I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase
of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco.
Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme
with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model.


Bill Pardie






Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
<mailto:tony@...>
Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


Bruce Smith wrote:



I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment,
and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the
design of this car.



You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was
less than happy about what eventually came from OMI.
At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to
OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at.
I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for
OMI.



Tony Thompson
tony@... <mailto:tony@...>







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Elden and List Members,
 
Elden wrote: "No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of.  And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these.  Really?  Then what are we looking at in this pic?"
 
Perhaps I'm the only one who does not know what corporate entity the reporting marks CISX correspond to, or perhaps not. I'll take a stupid wild-a** guess - since the image Elden referenced is on the Union Railroad, meaning the Pittsburgh PA area, is it Carnegie Illinois Steel maybe?
 
Thanks in advance
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

To add;

I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that;  it is gospel.  Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue.  There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual.

NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars.  NO ONE.  There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife.  I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached).  No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of.  And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these.  Really?  Then what are we looking at in this pic?  And what is that car attached to 507?  "It didn't exist".

And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it.  And it IS a great freight car kit, too!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models.

I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right.
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design.

Tim O'Connor





On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:


Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection.  Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them.  They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car.
I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car.  The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car.  I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car.


I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car.  Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car.  Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the
Overland car.  Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car.


My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short.  This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct.


These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models that they produced.  I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco.  Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model.


Bill Pardie






Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...> <mailto:tony@...
Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


Bruce Smith wrote:



I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment, and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the design of this car.



     You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was less than happy about what eventually came from OMI.
      At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at. I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for OMI.



Tony Thompson
tony@... <mailto:tony@...>







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts




Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Claus;

Looking at: A tank farm FULL of 103's....

The twins look like ACF-built 4-course ICC 103 8ks with dome platforms, quad spaced tank bands, and single raised dome vents. Carmer cut levers! I like the unusual clean-out arrangement on the end. I suppose you unbolted it and swung it away on that hinge. Look like a kit-bash of a Tichy kit?

Yes, Carnegie-Illinois Steel. USS Clairton By-Products plant tank farm. This is at Clairton, PA (actually Wilson), upriver from Pgh on west bank of the Mon.

This plant produced things like benzol, xylol, toluol, and of course other coal tar by-products like cresols ( think creosote), plus the clean-outs, make me think these are tar cars.

The car coupled to 507, looks like an acid car, 103B, maybe, with those appliances up top. That dome is really unusual. I just have never seen one like this. I'd love to have a close-up of that car.

I also like the one behind and right of the cab of 507, with dome platforms on all sides and ends of the dome. There are a few like that in the ACF book.

Also, that triple to far right.....

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 9:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Hi Elden and List Members,

Elden wrote: "No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of. And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these. Really? Then what are we looking at in this pic?"

Perhaps I'm the only one who does not know what corporate entity the reporting marks CISX correspond to, or perhaps not. I'll take a stupid wild-a** guess - since the image Elden referenced is on the Union Railroad, meaning the Pittsburgh PA area, is it Carnegie Illinois Steel maybe?

Thanks in advance

Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


To add;

I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that; it is gospel. Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue. There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual.

NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars. NO ONE. There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife. I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached). No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of. And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these. Really? Then what are we looking at in this pic? And what is that car attached to 507? "It didn't exist".

And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it. And it IS a great freight car kit, too!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models.

I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right.
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design.

Tim O'Connor





On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:


Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection. Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them. They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car.
I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car. The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car. I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car.


I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car. Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car. Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the
Overland car. Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car.


My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short. This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct.


These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models that they produced. I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco. Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model.


Bill Pardie






Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@... <mailto:tony@...> > <mailto:tony@...>
Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


Bruce Smith wrote:



I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment, and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the design of this car.



You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was less than happy about what eventually came from OMI.
At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at. I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for OMI.



Tony Thompson
tony@... <mailto:tony@...> <mailto:tony@...>







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Elden and List Members,
 
Thanks Elden for pointing out some of the more subtle aspects of the cars in that image. It got me to look deeper than I would have otherwise...
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2019 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Claus;

Looking at:  A tank farm FULL of 103's....

The twins look like ACF-built 4-course ICC 103 8ks with dome platforms, quad spaced tank bands, and single raised dome vents.  Carmer cut levers!  I like the unusual clean-out arrangement on the end.  I suppose you unbolted it and swung it away on that hinge.  Look like a kit-bash of a Tichy kit?

Yes, Carnegie-Illinois Steel.  USS Clairton By-Products plant tank farm.  This is at Clairton, PA (actually Wilson), upriver from Pgh on west bank of the Mon.

This plant produced things like benzol, xylol, toluol, and of course other coal tar by-products like cresols ( think creosote), plus the clean-outs, make me think these are tar cars.

The car coupled to 507, looks like an acid car, 103B, maybe, with those appliances up top.  That dome is really unusual.  I just have never seen one like this.  I'd love to have a close-up of that car.

I also like the one behind and right of the cab of 507, with dome platforms on all sides and ends of the dome.  There are a few like that in the ACF book.

Also, that triple to far right.....

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 9:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Hi Elden and List Members,
 
Elden wrote: "No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of.  And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these.  Really?  Then what are we looking at in this pic?"
 
Perhaps I'm the only one who does not know what corporate entity the reporting marks CISX correspond to, or perhaps not. I'll take a stupid wild-a** guess - since the image Elden referenced is on the Union Railroad, meaning the Pittsburgh PA area, is it Carnegie Illinois Steel maybe?
 
Thanks in advance
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


To add;

I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that;  it is gospel.  Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue.  There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual.

NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars.  NO ONE.  There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife.  I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached).  No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of.  And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these.  Really?  Then what are we looking at in this pic?  And what is that car attached to 507?  "It didn't exist".

And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it.  And it IS a great freight car kit, too!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>  [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models.

I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right.
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design.

Tim O'Connor





On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:


Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection.  Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them.  They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car.
I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car.  The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car.  I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car.


I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car.  Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car.  Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the
Overland car.  Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car.


My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short.  This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct.


These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models that they produced.  I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco.  Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model.


Bill Pardie






Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@... <mailto:tony@...> > <mailto:tony@...
Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>  <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car


Bruce Smith wrote:



I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment, and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the design of this car.



     You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was less than happy about what eventually came from OMI.
      At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at. I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for OMI.



Tony Thompson
tony@... <mailto:tony@...>  <mailto:tony@...>







--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts










Jon Miller
 

    Since we are talking about 2 dome cars does anyone have information on this one.  Bought it off (probably) eBay years ago.  At one time I may have known but am getting forgetful.  It came, to me, with the .088 wheelsets, and all painted black.  I'm guessing 8K without doing any measurements. (brass of course)


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jon Miller
 

On 11/6/2019 10:43 AM, Jon Miller via Groups.Io wrote:

 

    Got some 4x glasses out and started looking.  Found Ajin in a small etching on the bottom and used calipers on the wheels and they are overall back to front .066. so am assuming  they are actually scale.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

vapeurchapelon
 

I too have one of these. Yes, 8000gals, at least OMI advertised it as that. Nonetheless maybe too large, but for itself it is a nice model (perhaps only if one doesn't know too much about tank cars) and I definitely want to have it painted and therefore would like to find some information.
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 06. November 2019 um 19:43 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

    Since we are talking about 2 dome cars does anyone have information on this one.  Bought it off (probably) eBay years ago.  At one time I may have known but am getting forgetful.  It came, to me, with the .088 wheelsets, and all painted black.  I'm guessing 8K without doing any measurements. (brass of course)

 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jon Miller
 

On 11/12/2019 9:23 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
therefore would like to find some information.

    Old mind, but now seem to remember that a picture is in one of the CBCs.  Mine are all at the other house so I can't look it up.  A question, as I said in an additional post mine has .066 wheels sets.  Did they come this way (what are yours) or were they added.  Seems strange and the only brass cars I have ever seen with scale or close to scale treads.  Years ago I bought a set of scale wheels to use with contest cars.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

vapeurchapelon
 

They originally came with "ordinary" .110 wheels. I am not aware of any OMI model with different ones. But W&R had .88 wheels at least on several if not most of their freight car models.
Thanks for the hint to the CBC!
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. November 2019 um 18:59 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car
On 11/12/2019 9:23 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
therefore would like to find some information.

    Old mind, but now seem to remember that a picture is in one of the CBCs.  Mine are all at the other house so I can't look it up.  A question, as I said in an additional post mine has .066 wheels sets.  Did they come this way (what are yours) or were they added.  Seems strange and the only brass cars I have ever seen with scale or close to scale treads.  Years ago I bought a set of scale wheels to use with contest cars.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Kemal Mumcu
 

Scale wheels are useful when constructing models. I have some P87 wheelsets and I use them to visualize truck ride height. It's easier to see if the model needs raising or lowering. Colin Meikle